The Hind and the AP channels.

[PawlaczGMD]

3 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I’m glad the thread has helped you. I really enjoy flying with yaw AP and microswitch pressed for the dampening qualities. 
 

I just hold a bit of pedal, I don’t like trim because it decreases total pedal authority and this way I always know how much pedal I’m giving by feel. Luckily because the tail is extremely thick and airfoiled you need only very small pedal deflection from bucket speed to cruise. I just don’t like pedal trim In anything. It’s just personal preference and there is nothing wrong with how you do it

I have a question about trimmer button vs trim hat. Using the trim hat (FFB) moves the stick center, but not the AP. 

The hat just seems useless to me. The AP trim fights my input. In what scenario would using the trim hat be appropriate?

 

[Raffi75]

7 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I have a question about trimmer button vs trim hat. Using the trim hat (FFB) moves the stick center, but not the AP. 

The hat just seems useless to me. The AP trim fights my input. In what scenario would using the trim hat be appropriate?

 

I use the trim hat to make small, subtle corrections while flying along a route so that I don't have to constantly wave the joystick. When maneuvering during combat, my trimer is zeroed.

Edited February 28 by Raffi75

[PawlaczGMD]

22 minutes ago, Raffi75 said:

I use the trim hat to make small, subtle corrections while flying along a route so that I don't have to constantly wave the joystick. When maneuvering during combat, my AP is zeroed.

That's what I'd like to do, but without affecting the AP, I'm just setting myself for a large jerk whenever I have to use the trimmer.

[admiki]

4 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

That's what I'd like to do, but without affecting the AP, I'm just setting myself for a large jerk whenever I have to use the trimmer.

No.

If you are pushing stick against AP, it will try to get back to it's trimmed position, and that's where you get jerking when you press trim.

If you use hat, it will still move the stick, but AP will use this new stick position as it's new trimmed position. In other words, it will not try to get back to previous position.

Using trim hat has the same effect as if you press and hold trim, get into new position and let go of trim.

[PawlaczGMD]

7 hours ago, admiki said:

No.

If you are pushing stick against AP, it will try to get back to it's trimmed position, and that's where you get jerking when you press trim.

If you use hat, it will still move the stick, but AP will use this new stick position as it's new trimmed position. In other words, it will not try to get back to previous position.

Using trim hat has the same effect as if you press and hold trim, get into new position and let go of trim.

Wrong. The trim hat does not move the AP set attitude, it doesn't have the same effect as pressing the trimmer and moving the stick.

[admiki]

2 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Wrong. The trim hat does not move the AP set attitude, it doesn't have the same effect as pressing the trimmer and moving the stick.

Sorry, I completely glossed over the fact that you are using FFB stick with coresponding trim mode.

You are correct.

I use no springs and FFB trim mode, and it's bugged in that mode.

 

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Wrong. The trim hat does not move the AP set attitude, it doesn't have the same effect as pressing the trimmer and moving the stick.

Yea. It’s a bit in between. The hat is moving what the AP sees as stick centers, so it’s really affecting the compensation sensors that move the attitude hold according to stick positions. So yea it effects the attitude hold, but not entirely like trimming. 

The compensation sensors are moving the attitude hold in the same direction you move the stick. The trim button is updating both attitude hold and center position for the compensation sensors, while trim hat is only updating the center position of the compensation sensors  

let’s say I trim for bucket speed at 140 kmh, and fly to cruise and nose down. Instead of trim button I use trim hat to keep stick forward and nose down. Before I used trim hat, the forward stick moved the pitch attitude hold slightly nose down. However, as I trim it out with the hat the trim hat is telling AP “okay there is less forward stick deflection and stick is closer to center, so stop deflecting attitude hold down with the stick and move it back to level position.” 
 

This will mean that yes stick is trimmed forward, but AP is fighting you more as effectively you have moved the attitude hold back up by telling it with trim hat “my stick is closer to center, so don’t ‘compensate’ for forward stick by moving attitude hold down anymore.” 

If you had used trim button instead, it would both update attitude hold and inform AP of your new stick center, completely centering it for both attitude hold and compensation sensors. 
 

As you seem to have figured out, this is slightly counterproductive if you ever intend to use trim hat instead of button.  
 

I only use trim hat for one situation, roll. 
You can think of your pitch channel having aggressive attitude hold, but weak compensation sensors. And roll channel having weak attitude hold, but very aggressive compensation sensors. The pitch attitude hold will go from 0-100% in 5 degrees, and half stick will only move it 5 degrees. While roll attitude hold will go from 0-100% in about 12.5 degrees, and half lateral stick will move it about 45 degrees. 
 

So let’s say I’m in cruise where I am most of the time, and I want the Hind to fly straight and level hands off. I trim nose about -5-7 degrees down and wings level. Nose stays where it is, but because of anhedral wings and weak attitude hold of roll channel it wants to roll. This is when I use hat trim for roll. I don’t necessarily need to update the roll attitude hold, it is very close to 0 degrees bank anyways. I only really need to update center stick position. 
 

You will also never find the roll channel to be as centered as pitch channel in normal flying as its compensation sensors are so incredibly sensitive. So I use hat trim to fine tune it. 

Ocassionaly I might use trim button on rol to “re set” it, but I find myself only really using hat trim this way, only for roll to keep it level. 
 

You can see this on the ground. Move stick any direction, you will see compensation sensors deflect attitude hold in direction of stick. Give hat trim in same direction, and the attitude hold will go back to center. 
 

 

Edited February 28 by AeriaGloria