Training mission--free fall bombs

[VZ_342]

 

^ = degrees

 

I'm trying to complete this mission, but seem to be having a bit of a challenge....All settings/parameters are met, but a 20^ dive points the nose directly into the water, and this does not change throughout the dive.

 

At first I'd dive at 20^, then I found myself slowly nudging the nose up, and the pipper would cross the target at 3200', but by then I was showing a dive of 15^....and I don't think I'm supposed to be adjusting the dive angle just for accuracy. As I understand it, holding 20^ allows the pipper to cross the target without any stick movement.

 

I know this is a tricky thing to do, but that's why I've been persistent over the past 2 weeks, but that 20^ dive just ain't doing it for me.

 

Any tips?  TIA

[VZ_342]

Still not happening....I've noticed that many of the YouTube videos for this confirm the 20^ dive angle, but the actual angle being used is 15^. The 10, 20, and 30 are full-width lines, while the 5's (5, 15, 25) are half-wide lines. Yet, they seem to have good luck with this. 

I'll just keep trying, maybe there's a technique which yields reliable hits.

 

[Jascha]

Have you seen this?

 

[VZ_342]

Yes, when he releases he's at 15^.

 

20^ for most of the dive, then nudges towards the target, when pipper is on the target, he is at 15^. But....otherwise, yes it's a perfect pass.

[VZ_342]

One issue is the double standard for the process...They want a 20^ dive angle, AND the target two radii from the pipper.  These are separate variables, and do not necessarily line up at the same time. The dive angle is measurable, but the pipper/2r/target is very much a "work in progress", and of course it changes throughout the dive (ending with the pipper directly over the target).

 

Furthering the complexity, the F-5 isn't especially stable (requires near-constant trimming), so it is very difficult to tell if the pipper is getting closer by the dive or by pilot influence. Either way, the original pipper/2r/target (let's call it the "p2rt") relationship should be steadily decreasing with altitude.

 

Altitude = 6700' MSL--->3200', so "halfway" should be 4950ish, and the pipper should also be halfway, or one radii from pipper to target.

 

Just thinking out loud here, will re-fly the mission to check it out.

 

Also, I did one run with a 7200' MSL roll-in, and weapons landed inside the ring, just beyond the target. Closest yet for me.

Edited August 30, 2022 by VZ_342

[Jascha]

Well, I gave it a try, although I'm a bit rusty with F-5E. Btw has the FM been tweaked recently? I don't recall this jet being so wobbly, unless that's what several months of fly-by-wire flying will to you...

20° dive bombing just for you:

Almost by the book. Almost, because it was another attempt and I started the roll in higher. But it's worth to notice that actual 20° dive on target was established around 6700 ft.

But overall that is also my feeling that the 5000 ft AGL recommended in the training is too low for 20° dive. Or it depends how the roll in is performed. It's possible to lose like 1000 ft just before 20° dive is established.

Just to be clear I'm not able to score a direct hit with very attempt although my bombs land inside the circle (almost) every time, provided that a dive angle of 20° (or higher) is established. But this is not a pinpoint strike jet, so I guess it's unreasonable to expect this kind of accuracy.

BTW I tweaked the training scenario, so I can start in the air (set the initial altitude in ME to your liking, after mission start adjust the reticle and fusing and you're good to go).

F-5E free fall bombs training.miz

Edited August 31, 2022 by Jascha

[VZ_342]

Thank you! Yes, I'd wondered about the roll-in, there are several different ways to accomplish that, but also several ways (minus one, of course!) to mess the dive up.

 

Yee gads, I can do the pre takeoff switchology in my dreams now... Thanks for the .miz!

[VZ_342]

So I was rolling and diving entering the approach, and found I ended up between 5700' and 5000' depending on how stable I was. That is a bit of altitude loss, so that explains the inability to reach 20^. I tried rolling to wings vertical, and pulling until the target was almost directly below, rolled level and simultaneously pointed the nose down to 20^. That helped, but still short.

 

Then I tried an 8000 entry, made it to 25^ and again short. Next few tries were 7500' entry, but after a couple more wings vertical, level/nose down I decided to just turn into the target (30^ turn) and then just push over into a 20^ dive. That helped a lot, but still no go. But it was an improvement, and I wasn't frustrated after 8 attempts.

 

I'm sure it'll get better. 

[VZ_342]

Ok, doing much better! The first few attempts (starting at 7000'MSL, sliding to the left and then gently nosing down until aligned and 20^) were on the border targets or just inside...but the last 3 were boom boom boom on the (now burning) target! Thanks Jascha!

[Raviar]

The bomb trajectory is not following the Weapon Manual base on Calculated AOA, Speed, G, Dive Angel, Release Alt, Release IAS and Mil Depression
hence very specific profile like what mentioned in manual will work only on certain QNH and in Caucuses, I am not sure if it is the same issue (bug) as we do have in Hornet, but I believe ED will fix it at some point 

However, What I did for myself was creating profile for different bombs with different parameters, and it is very painful as almost every update will change it 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Raviar

[Jascha]

15 hours ago, VZ_342 said:

Ok, doing much better! The first few attempts (starting at 7000'MSL, sliding to the left and then gently nosing down until aligned and 20^) were on the border targets or just inside...but the last 3 were boom boom boom on the (now burning) target! Thanks Jascha!

I'm glad I could help.

I was doing some more bomb runs yesterday, because I wanted to see if 5000ft AGL and 20° dive can be done. It can, but the key imho is to perform the roll in in a way that you won't lose (too much) altitude before lining up with the target. That's the third attempt in the video below.

Other very important factor not to overlook is the aircraft speed during bomb release. According to the mission briefing it should be 380-400 KIAS. It's now my primary focus just before the drop. If I'm slower - I'm aiming a bit behind a target. If I'm faster - a bit ahead of it. It's definitely easier this way than trying to correct your speed just before the release.

Other than that, if you're using TrackIR it's also worth to take notice of your view angle - meaning if you're perfectly aligned with the reticle (similar as to using an iron sights). That's what caused the "drift" to the left in the 1st attempt, I believe.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Jascha