RogueNation554 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Theres all these Russian Sanullms but theres a whole and only 2 Sams on DCS for USA but there is So many Variants for the Hawk as we only have the MIM-23B Hawk on DCS which is from 1971 annulld about the Patriot theres a few variants ive been in servers and all the Sam's are Russian i never seen an American Sam in a server ED really has to up there game about Surface to air missiles or someone needs to make a mod for American surface to air missiles yes i know about the High Digits Sam mod its all Russian not a single American Sam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 US had lagged behind in SAMs, especially land-based ones, for much of the Cold War. Patriot PAC-3 is good, but the earlier versions were somewhat dodgy, and the Hawk wasn't that great, either. Neither was as widely exported as Russian SAMs. The US operated on assumption that their aircraft would be doing everything, and that they'll be able to render the enemy air force ineffective from the air. How well it would have worked in the event of an actual clash against a peer opponent remains an open question (in Vietnam SAMs gave them trouble, but in that war the Vietnamese rarely attacked them from air), but it always surprised me how neglected ground-based air defense was by the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 PAC-2 wasn't dodgy, as long as it targeted aircraft and (until the problem was corrected) you reset the system every so often to correct clock drift. It was later enhanced to better deal with ballistic missiles as opposed to the rushed ABM role it was put into. Further, while PATRIOT was the big kid on the block, it was supplemented by other NATO SAMs. Conversely, PAC-3 isn't appropriate to be used against ABTs. You can, but the PAC-2s do better. There are other SAMs available, like NASAMs, other NATOs SAMs and of course the stinger platforms, whether shoulder-fired or mounted. What is the mod for? It's not like there's going to be a huge difference in DCS between these missile variants, DCS is simply not capable of representing a bunch of it right now. Proper representation requires additional guidance models, especially for ABMs. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueNation554 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 ahh that i didnt know but what about the different variants of the Hawk Missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueNation554 Posted October 7, 2022 Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 ok so i read yesterday that on DCS the hawks are the B variant but i just seen a K variant get launched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 Same thing applies, although maybe, just maybe the current parameters are enough to differentiate the HAWKs with anti-heli capability and the ones without. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted October 7, 2022 Share Posted October 7, 2022 We might not be able to simulate all the variants, but whatever Patriot we have seems to be underwhelming in terms of range. The missile is very draggy and can barely climb to high altitudes before motor burn out. Also something similar to what is done with AA missiles (basically tweaking chaff resistance) could be nice just to give a little knob to turn depending on what time period SAM we're trying to emulate in our missions. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted October 8, 2022 Share Posted October 8, 2022 MIM-23C and all variants of the Patriot are AESA Guidance so they would never miss! Russia also has AESA Radars on missiles like the S300. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 MIM-23 uses HIPAR for guidance, there's nothing AESA about it. Likewise, PATRIOT and S300 is PESA, and AESA isn't some some form of magical 'never miss' potion. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 He doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't think there's any AESA SAM in service right now, the technology is rather expensive, and SAM radars tend to be large. Also, no radar is going to change the fact that missiles themselves can be outflown, by methods well known to DCS players. Unless you employ a psychic as your SAM operator, there's only so much a smart guidance can do to stop the missile from being defeated kinematically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 10 hours ago, GGTharos said: MIM-23 uses HIPAR for guidance, there's nothing AESA about it. Likewise, PATRIOT and S300 is PESA, and AESA isn't some some form of magical 'never miss' potion. They do not miss both Patriot and the S300 are very similar missiles. They are of a generation that does not miss. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquorys Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 (edited) On 10/6/2022 at 9:05 PM, Dragon1-1 said: US had lagged behind in SAMs, especially land-based ones, for much of the Cold War. (...) The US operated on assumption that their aircraft would be doing everything, and that they'll be able to render the enemy air force ineffective from the air. That pretty much sums it up. I have always wondered why they only put the SM-2/SM-2ER on ships, but not also into land based systems, maybe even (semi-)mobile ones. It seems as if that could have been done with moderate effort and investment. PS: They could maybe add the SM-2ER to DCS? On 10/11/2022 at 12:52 AM, Dragon1-1 said: I don't think there's any AESA SAM in service right now The british Sea Viper (PAAMS) on the Daring class (Type 45, which, by the way, I'd love to see in DCS one day) has an AESA radar, but that's about the only one I could think of. Maybe the French/Italian Horizon class has it too, it's mostly the same system, but I'm not sure about that one. Edited October 24, 2022 by Aquorys See PS F-16 / Su-33 / Ka-50 F-16 Checklists (Kneeboard compatible) F-16 BVR training missions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngreenaway Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 On 10/6/2022 at 12:25 PM, GGTharos said: PAC-2 wasn't dodgy, as long as it targeted aircraft and (until the problem was corrected) you reset the system every so often to correct clock drift. It was later enhanced to better deal with ballistic missiles as opposed to the rushed ABM role it was put into. Further, while PATRIOT was the big kid on the block, it was supplemented by other NATO SAMs. Conversely, PAC-3 isn't appropriate to be used against ABTs. You can, but the PAC-2s do better. There are other SAMs available, like NASAMs, other NATOs SAMs and of course the stinger platforms, whether shoulder-fired or mounted. What is the mod for? It's not like there's going to be a huge difference in DCS between these missile variants, DCS is simply not capable of representing a bunch of it right now. Proper representation requires additional guidance models, especially for ABMs. Sounds like you are/were a 14-series as well? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, ngreenaway said: Sounds like you are/were a 14-series as well? Hi, I was not - this is knowledge for publicly accessible (but in some cases not easily findable) data. For example, there was testimony from a trial which revealed a lot of details about PATRIOT, as well as statistics and of course some redacted stuff like ranges and names of cruise and anti-radar missiles it could launch against. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Patriot Radar on the missile and many SAM and AAM Missiles have AESA Radar. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngreenaway Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 hours ago, GGTharos said: Hi, I was not - this is knowledge for publicly accessible (but in some cases not easily findable) data. For example, there was testimony from a trial which revealed a lot of details about PATRIOT, as well as statistics and of course some redacted stuff like ranges and names of cruise and anti-radar missiles it could launch against. got it. i spent more than 10 years working patriot [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngreenaway Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 hours ago, SUBS17 said: Patriot Radar on the missile and many SAM and AAM Missiles have AESA Radar. not the one we have in DCS. what we have in-sim is modelled before the pac3 rollout. the AESA version is relatively new to the force [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play Modules: All of them System: I9-9900k, ROG Maximus , 32gb ram, RTX2070 Founder's Edition, t16000,hotas, pedals & cougar MFD, HP Reverb 1.2, HTC VIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, ngreenaway said: got it. i spent more than 10 years working patriot Thank You for your service 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBS17 Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 9 hours ago, ngreenaway said: not the one we have in DCS. what we have in-sim is modelled before the pac3 rollout. the AESA version is relatively new to the force The S300 is literally the same they are both very good SAM's. [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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