Best resource for Gameplans? (F-14 v F-5, F-16, ...)

[Istari6]

Long-time fan of Reflected's campaigns, finally proficient enough with the Tomcat to start Zone V.

I've just completed Event 01 (F-5E Tiger II), and I'm struck at how there's constant discussion of "gameplans", but no resources about them.  I've read through all the Docs without going into spoiler territory for future missions (Quick Checklist, Nellis Course Rules, Syllabus, Event 00, Event 01), and there aren't any specific recommendations on how F-14 pilots were taught to fight specific airframes.

I understand some of the basic principles:

• The F-14 has lower wing-loading than the F-5 and better high AoA controllability.  So a 1 turn fight should favor the Tomcat.  Yet F-5 is more nimble in roll. making close-in scissors potentially dangerous.
• F-14A T/W is 0.78 (50% fuel) and I think the Tiger is slightly less.  Given lower wing-loading, the Tomcat should also have a higher sustained turn rate than the Tiger, so a 2 circle is an option.

I can see argument for 2-circle as safer, but risk losing sight of the small Tiger.  1 circle keeps sight easier on a small bandit, but you're close in with the Tiger and need to ensure don't enter too fast or risk kicking out in front.

This stuff I can sort of put together myself, but one thing I was hoping for from the campaign is a chance to learn how Tomcat pilots were trained to fight against these threat airframes.  Are there any good resources to learn from in developing our own gameplans as I progress through the Zone V campaign?

 

[Reflected]

Zone 5 is not a training campaign in a way that it doesn’t tell you what to do. It’s a training detachment.  It puts you in to increasingly challenging situations and you learn by doing. Then you analyze what you did and how it worked out. Plus we couldn’t include everything in the campaign due to confidentiality issues. 
 

My upcoming Speed & Angels will teach you a lot of the basics that will be quite useful for Zone 5 too. 
 

this being said I’m also curious what tactics you guys think are the best. There are several solutions to each problem. 

[Istari6]

Thanks Reflected.  I figured there were limits to how much "Bio" and other retired professionals can actually share.  Wasn't sure if there were any open-source or declassified documents that provided concrete examples of gameplans vs specific types.

I'd also welcome input from other veterans of the campaign on F-14A/F-5E and F-14A/F-16C.

To get the conversation rolling:

For F-5E in Event 01, my initial gameplan was to fight two circle.  Slice nose down (to put the F-5 above the horizon for visibility) and get to 340 KIAS, then just motor around in best sustained turn until I had angles.  Outlaw 42 actually passed me angle off, giving me 20-30 deg at opening, so I turned in and pressed an immediate pursuit.  

In the second engagment, we did pass nose-to-nose, but this time I wanted to try a one circle.  So I entered the fight relatively slow, than reefed it around at high alpha to cut inside the Tigers turn.  Then it took some time to accelerate and run him down.

Bonus Question: are the AI pilots on limited fuel?  I was surprised how long the Tiger II was able to ride in burner staying out in front of me.  My memory of flying the Tiger II is that it had pretty limited fuel supplies.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Istari6

[DCS.Fighter.Masi]

On release of the campaign, the 1 v 1 with the F-5 was a piece of cake, you just turned and turned and eventually the F-5 fly itself into the piper and you get a very easy kill. Then ED tweaked the AI a few months ago and it became a serious challenge. It was still kind of easy to get on the 6 of the F-5. Kill wasn´t that easy anymore, since it was dancing around and the AI even flew sometimes not the F-5 but an UFO with insane accleration and turn rates.

With the new AI in 2.8 it is a now really difficult to even get on the 6 of the F-5 because at this AI-Skill Level it almost conters every move you make. Maybe it would be an idea to turn the skill level a bit down. You also have to keep in mind, that this is the very first mission of the campaign.

New AI still seems to have a bug: in 10 engagement, it flew itself 4 times into the ground and 5 times below the hard deck. I tried the quick-start Zone 1 Teaser 1 v 1 that is free for everybody with the NTTR Map and the Tomcat.

[Reflected]

11 minutes ago, DCS.Fighter.Masi said:

 

With the new AI in 2.8 it is a now really difficult to even get on the 6 of the F-5 because at this AI-Skill Level it almost conters every move you make. Maybe it would be an idea to turn the skill level a bit down. You also have to keep in mind, that this is the very first mission of the campaign.

It's set to novice

11 minutes ago, DCS.Fighter.Masi said:

New AI still seems to have a bug: in 10 engagement, it flew itself 4 times into the ground and 5 times below the hard deck. I tried the quick-start Zone 1 Teaser 1 v 1 that is free for everybody with the NTTR Map and the Tomcat.

I've seen that before 2.8 too. DCS AI. Not campaign related... record a track and submit it to the AI forums where the devs can see

By the way, the best resource of gameplans will be my upcoming Speed & Angels campaign

[Reflected]

BTW I checked some of the Zone 5 missions, and I'll slightly adjust some of the AI skills.

[Indianajon]

The main issue I have had since the update isn't getting onto the F5 tail but him diving consistently below the hard deck. In fairness as a game plan to lock out the F14 it's great! Is a little frustrating though and no idea how you would stop them doing it.

To recreate I suggest using the teaser 1v1 as he has done it 5 out of 5 times for me in that one.

That said in the larger multi aircraft engagements with missiles, the new ai has definitely made me have to rethink the gameplan and the above is less of an issue.

[Reflected]

Yeah the AI dives down to the deck quite often. The hard deck is only 500 feet though, any lower and there is no hard deck

 

I could also lower the hard deck for the AI but not for the player. But that wouldn't be fair.

 

No good solution here.

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Reflected

[DCS.Fighter.Masi]

ED has still some work to do with the AI. It isn´t your fault with the hard deck, or that they crash into the ground. It seems to me, that they only read their altitude, but not the distance to the ground. NTTR-Map is very high with it many valleys and hills.