FFB spring 'center' moves forward when adding the curve to the pitch axis

[peachmonkey]

Hello, @NineLine

just wanted to report a bug (confirmed by other FFB enthusiasts on discord) with FFB and P47.

Equipment:   VPfore Rhino FFB joystick

Issue:  when adding the curve to the pitch axis of P47 the FFB center moves 'forward' (i.e. pitch down) and with a curve more than ~22 it's no longer possible to maintain a leveled flight with the trim.

How replicate:

a) set curve to 0 for pitch axis

b) start a mission with the airstart

c) trim the aircraft so it's flying leveled

d) press Esc/Controls/tune the pitch axis, set the curve to 30 or 40

e) click OK and observe its nosing down by itself, i.e. it's no longer in a leveled flight. You can then max out the pitch trim to "tail heavy" and you still won't be able to fly leveled without pulling the stick back.

cheers.

[DD_Fenrir]

It's the same for all the WW2 aircraft pm; been using a MS Sidewinder FFB2 for years and have always experienced this behaviour; the force/trim model remains linear despite changes to the input curve and this is results in un-prototypical behaviour; particularly problematic in the Mosquito, where you have to very carefully juggle a compromise between overly sensitive pitch control or a curious tucking phenomenom that manifests as airspeed passes a particular threshold, that threshold appearing at progressively lower airspeed as curvature values increase.

The only apparent 100% solution is to get a stick extension that provides a 1:1 scale replica of the moment arm/displacement of the real control column.

We have attempted to open dialogue with ED regards this issue and see if there is a way of simulating stick forces that doesn't have these side effects for those of us who have FFB sticks that do not (or cannot econonmically be made to) reflect prototypical displacements to not be penalised.

[peachmonkey]

7 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

It's the same for all the WW2 aircraft pm; been using a MS Sidewinder FFB2 for years and have always experienced this behaviour; the force/trim model remains linear despite changes to the input curve and this is results in un-prototypical behaviour; particularly problematic in the Mosquito, where you have to very carefully juggle a compromise between overly sensitive pitch control or a curious tucking phenomenom that manifests as airspeed passes a particular threshold, that threshold appearing at progressively lower airspeed as curvature values increase.

The only apparent 100% solution is to get a stick extension that provides a 1:1 scale replica of the moment arm/displacement of the real control column.

We have attempted to open dialogue with ED regards this issue and see if there is a way of simulating stick forces that doesn't have these side effects for those of us who have FFB sticks that do not (or cannot econonmically be made to) reflect prototypical displacements to not be penalised.

gotcha. In my testing of the Mosquito I noticed that whenever a curve is used the 'pitch UP' gets the reduced sensitivity, however 'pitch DOWN' sensitivity remains the same. Or at least that's how it felt to me. In other words you're right about the mossie, and the necessity for a super long extension. I think VPforce can totally support it with its powerful motors, just need to find the proper stick for it. Maybe try out a bunch of VirPIL extensions together to build a 400mm one, hopefully the signaling to/from the grip isn't affected by the addition of the wire extensions...

 

[AJaromir]

I am not sure there is possible to fix this than using no curve. The thing is: For ffb sticks the "center of curve" does not shift. The best solution of this is using the joystick lenght extension tools for now.

Also a note:

In most WWII aircrafts you don't shift the stick neutral position. The neutral position is shifted by aerodynamic forces. When the aircraft is not moving, there should be no centering force.

Edited November 4, 2022 by AJaromir