Slew on saved datalink target don't work

[okopanja]

22 minutes ago, Hobel said:

track?

Here is where it does not work:

Ka-50_ABRIS.trk

Here is where it works:

Ka-50_ED_free_flight.trk

 

Please do not bother, I enter coordinates with my mod, and it appears the track file does not record clickable actions from export scripts. (Bug?)

I will create short video.

Edited March 13, 2023 by okopanja

[tekrc]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

As I see it, your procedure is also wrong, you make precise aligment and fly off after a few minutes?

was just a fast align so it isnt wrong. but the result wasnt changing doing a norm or precise align and was having a bunch of issues trying to get heading set up correctly and its not well explained. every tutorial I saw seems say to use a different reference for twhat to put in the dial and im not sure what im supposed to use.

also this is with "No alignment and fixtaking needed" in the ME so it shouldnt be needed regardless

[tekrc]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

After this is done I could have waited another 2-5 minutes for the diss, but I decided to take off right away so that it would "start up" faster, so I hover for a moment so that I don't accumulate too many errors, now that the DISS was on I could fly.

as far as I understand if the DISS is done you start getting the speed readout on the hud as a number? in which case mine is done before I start up. as soon as I lift I have mine and thats doing the fast alignment. if thats not it im not sure where I would check it but if it is I dont think it takes that long

[okopanja]

Here is were it works for me:

and here is where it does not. Note: in second case I also have inflight slot similar to the one of the ED's mission and it still does not work.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by okopanja

[Hobel]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb tekrc:

was just a fast align so it isnt wrong. but the result wasnt changing doing a norm or precise align and was having a bunch of issues trying to get heading set up correctly and its not well explained. every tutorial I saw seems say to use a different reference for twhat to put in the dial and im not sure what im supposed to use.

also this is with "No alignment and fixtaking needed" in the ME so it shouldnt be needed regardless

In the video, you press "PREC".
so there's something wrong from the start.

vor 43 Minuten schrieb tekrc:

as far as I understand if the DISS is done you start getting the speed readout on the hud as a number? in which case mine is done before I start up. as soon as I lift I have mine and thats doing the fast alignment. if thats not it im not sure where I would check it but if it is I dont think it takes that long

it comes on for you exactly when you take off and float a little in the air, so that's right

vor einer Stunde schrieb Candiru89:

Ok, I feel stupid now. How do I check the status of the INU?

EDIT: the ABRISS always shows you the current GPS coordinates of your position if these deviate in the PVI-800, the system has drifted.

here I show it.

If I select Fixpoint 2, I create a manual drift which then shows me a wrong position as an example, Fixpoint 1 is the correct position again.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Hobel

[Hobel]

 

vor 31 Minuten schrieb tekrc:

also this is with "No alignment and fixtaking needed" in the ME so it shouldnt be needed regardless

Otherwise, send me the mission and I'll take another look at it.

[Hobel]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb okopanja:

Here is the were it works for me:

and here is where it does not. Note: in second case I also have inflight slot similar to the one of the ED's mission and it still does not work.

 

 

oh yes, that.... the sad truth is that you don't enter any altitude in the PVI-800, and as far as I know, that's not possible either.

In the video where it works, the ASL of the targets is 33m.
and in your mission it's about 480m, so it's no wonder that the targets are so displaced.

[Hobel]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb tekrc:

as far as I understand if the DISS is done you start getting the speed readout on the hud as a number? in which case mine is done before I start up. as soon as I lift I have mine and thats doing the fast alignment. if thats not it im not sure where I would check it but if it is I dont think it takes that long

vor 26 Minuten schrieb Hobel:

it comes on for you exactly when you take off and float a little in the air, so that's right

But I have to say that with you it starts very early than I usually observe it with me...
can you create another track where the DISS comes on almost at the Ground  with you?

Maybe it has something to do with you pressing "PREC"?

Edited March 13, 2023 by Hobel

[tekrc]

33 minutes ago, Hobel said:

But I have to say that with you it starts very early than I usually observe it with me...
can you create another track where the DISS comes on almost at the Ground  with you?

Maybe it has something to do with you pressing "PREC"?

 

I can do that yeah give me a few. this happens in a few different missions across different maps so Ill do it in another for cross comparing and send that one. reading through though I never tried the included instant action missions so Ill see what it does there as well and report back.

the weird thing is I never pressed a mode key on the right side of the PVI. I'll go slower around the pvi this time and see if that makes a difference

[okopanja]

8 hours ago, Hobel said:

oh yes, that.... the sad truth is that you don't enter any altitude in the PVI-800, and as far as I know, that's not possible either.

In the video where it works, the ASL of the targets is 33m.
and in your mission it's about 480m, so it's no wonder that the targets are so displaced.

You were correct, taking of from near coast produced usable result.

SKHVAL slewing requires coordinates  and the altitude of both helicopter and target point.

In addition SKHVAL itself has to be stabilized for this to work properly.

The fact that Shark does not know the target point altitude when it needs to slew SKHVAL, but it allegedly knows the altitude when it needs to update the fix point is rather interesting.

IMHO: fix/target point altitude can come from 2 sources:

1. manual entry into PVI-800
2. ABRIS database query

With no block diagram (I asked for it some time ago and got declined) to show interconnections we can not really judge if this is realistic or not, but paradox is there.

Sadly Black Shark 3 still gives the sensation of unfinished product. IMHO, adding this feature would not hurt much, since there is an inherent rounding (not small) error that requires the pilot to search for the target, by selecting target point and then doing visual identification. This would be beneficial for pop-up attacks.

Edited March 14, 2023 by okopanja

[okopanja]

I found another inconsistency:

In mission editor I entered the target points and flew again.

This time slewing worked with insane precision with even rounding error of PVI-800 being absent, and shark actually knowing exact altitudes of target points.

Clearly coordinates can not be accurate that much with INU over the drift, but the paradox is that someone intentionally coded the altitude knowledge in ME and consequently the module uses this knowledge.

IMHO there must be a way to specify/obtain altitude of target point in helicopter, otherwise there would not be any sense to built in all that junk weight into it.

Here is the track file

Ka-50_ABRIS_with_ME_target_point.trk

[Hobel]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb okopanja:

I found another inconsistency:

In mission editor I entered the target points and flew again.

This time slewing worked with insane precision with even rounding error of PVI-800 being absent, and shark actually knowing exact altitudes of target points.

Clearly coordinates can not be accurate that much with INU over the drift, but the paradox is that someone intentionally coded the altitude knowledge in ME and consequently the module uses this knowledge.

IMHO there must be a way to specify/obtain altitude of target point in helicopter, otherwise there would not be any sense to built in all that junk weight into it.

Here is the track file

I am aware of this and I would also think that the helicopter/PVI-800 knows the altitude when you create target points with the Shkval, because these have the correct altitude, as you know.

Maybe there is a way to transmit the altitude to the helicopter with the help of your KA-50 tool, just like the ME does.
But I have no idea how to do this, so maybe you can find a solution.

[tekrc]

did a few more flights and noticed something. the error in where shkval points does seem to be related to the elevation in my case. syria elevation is pretty up there so its really far off but the marker on abris is in the right place and I can manually slew the line over to it and find the target. additionally the shkval IS tracking a point not just following the nose in turns etc but that point is way underground. so I thought my issue here is elevation related as well.

this changed on the Caucasus map. using the small disused airstrip  with targets for a reference as this is close to sea level, I did the same thing. the point no longer slewed the shkval to an underground spot but went off horizontally and no longer matched up with the abris position. this is where I first suspected drift but the behavior is the same once it slews over so could be a mix of altitude and drift for the actual cause? its just horizontally off in this one though and looks like more like drift compared to what we saw on syria so it could be something else entirely. same mission settings as the syria track. included track and mission.

(side note but you have the mission if you have the track. just change file extension. that way you can try the syria one too)

 

nav error CS.trk target practice beta new stk.miz

Edited March 14, 2023 by tekrc

[okopanja]

10 hours ago, Hobel said:

Maybe there is a way to transmit the altitude to the helicopter with the help of your KA-50 tool, just like the ME does.
But I have no idea how to do this, so maybe you can find a solution.

The tool only uses PVI-800 keyboard to enter. ABRIS uses dials (that was voodoo magic to get it work).

Since I could not get block diagram from ED, I generated a dependency graph based on module lua files.  Guess which devices is the top most ranked.

You will need to download the svg and open it with web browser (edge).

ka-50.svg