VKB or Virpil?

[Tiger-II]

Hi,

Looking for a new set of rudder pedals. The VKB look to do what I need, though they lack toe brakes.

VKB: https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-iv-2/

Virpil: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-ace-interceptor-pedals.html

Virpil look interesting until you realize they want an astronomical sum just to ship them, making the cost nearly $400 rather than the apparent $260 the pedals cost on the sales page.

What range of motion do the Virpil pedals have from neutral to full deflection (inches please)? I've checked multiple reviews and no-one discusses this important aspect!

While the VKB don't have the articulation I'd be looking for, they are less than half the price and nail everything else I want.

In summary: is the Virpil worth double the price, if you neglect toe brakes? I primarily fly helicopters in DCS.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Tiger-II

[EightyDuce]

I have VKB t-rudders, never used Virpils. So with some one-sided bias, here is my take. I love my t-rudders, very smooth with defined center plus adjustable preload. You can move them further apart left/right forward/back. I also play a good bit of helicopters and t-rudders are the closes thing we have to helicopter-like rudder pedals. I 3d printed some dampers that go between the pedal and the main body and it acts like a clutch as to prevent the pedal from coming back until counter force is applied. As for the toe brakes, those are easily added virtually.

 

I also have a VKB gunfighter stick and they integrate seamlessly. For the money, I couldn't be happier with them, almost 3 years later.

[BuzzU]

Depends on what planes you fly.

[Tiger-II]

4 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

I have VKB t-rudders, never used Virpils. So with some one-sided bias, here is my take. I love my t-rudders, very smooth with defined center plus adjustable preload. You can move them further apart left/right forward/back. I also play a good bit of helicopters and t-rudders are the closes thing we have to helicopter-like rudder pedals. I 3d printed some dampers that go between the pedal and the main body and it acts like a clutch as to prevent the pedal from coming back until counter force is applied. As for the toe brakes, those are easily added virtually.

 

I also have a VKB gunfighter stick and they integrate seamlessly. For the money, I couldn't be happier with them, almost 3 years later.

How do the toe brakes work with these? There is an interesting line of text on their site that reads: "And Virtual-Toe Brake software is now available to give users added functionality!"

How does that work?

1 minute ago, BuzzU said:

Depends on what planes you fly.

Helicopters (Ka-50, Mi-8, Huey, Mi-24). Not needed so much for the jets (JF-17, F-16, F-18).

Edited December 24, 2022 by Tiger-II

[BuzzU]

I've read the VKB rudder pedals are great for choppers.

[EightyDuce]

5 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

How do the toe brakes work with these? There is an interesting line of text on their site that reads: "And Virtual-Toe Brake software is now available to give users added functionality!"

How does that work?

Helicopters (Ka-50, Mi-8, Huey, Mi-24). Not needed so much for the jets (JF-17, F-16, F-18).

 

You essentially create a modifier, which while held down changes/creates virtual axis which can be assigned to either individual axis for each wheel or apply both wheels. Also, as someone else mentioned, these pedals are stupid precise allowing for a very fine control input

I'd have to go back and look exactly how my brakes are set up, it's been years since I've messed with it. Below posts go over it and may have a better way of doing it.

VKB Forums:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=3597

[Tiger-II]

I ordered the VKB pedals. Need to wait for sometime next year as they are on holiday!

Thanks everyone!

[tigayot228]

11 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

You essentially create a modifier, which while held down changes/creates virtual axis which can be assigned to either individual axis for each wheel or apply both wheels. Also, as someone else mentioned, these pedals are stupid precise allowing for a very fine control input

I'd have to go back and look exactly how my brakes are set up, it's been years since I've messed with it. Below posts go over it and may have a better way of doing it.

VKB Forums:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=3597

Waw, thank the info, is game changer for sure. I was holding back ever since VKB pedal because the lack of foot brake.

Edited December 25, 2022 by tigayot228

[Dangerzone]

I was hesitant too because of this but so glad I took the jump and just bought them. I fly planes (WW2, Modem) and heli’s and have never missed the toe brakes that I had previously on the CH Pro. The level of precision and comfort is nuts with these things. 2 years on and VKB T-Rudders are still going fantastic!

Edited December 25, 2022 by Dangerzone

[BuzzU]

I have a silly question. I've never flown a chopper in game but wondering why would you need brakes?

[EightyDuce]

11 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

I have a silly question. I've never flown a chopper in game but wondering why would you need brakes?

Its not that brake solution on these pedals makes them great for choppers, it's their design/operation and construction which closely resembles that what is found helicopters. It also has a fine resolution inputs, which is of more value choppers than fixed wing. 

As far as choppers and brakes, most rotary birds equipped with wheels use them for taxiing, brakes are there for the same reasons as on fixed wing aircraft. 

[BuzzU]

I had some VKB pedals a few years ago. I liked them and i'm considering buying them again. I just used a button for brakes. Some planes brakes are important. I just fly the Hornet and brakes don't matter a lot.

[tomcat_driver]

48 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

I have a silly question. I've never flown a chopper in game but wondering why would you need brakes?

For wheeled helicopters, you can brake while on the ground. But to pay 300+£ for a rudder pedal, which also takes quite a lot of space in your office/play area, it better be versatile enough to support not only helicopters, but all your planes as well.

[EightyDuce]

40 minutes ago, tomcat_driver said:

For wheeled helicopters, you can brake while on the ground. But to pay 300+£ for a rudder pedal, which also takes quite a lot of space in your office/play area, it better be versatile enough to support not only helicopters, but all your planes as well.

And it does. 

[BuzzU]

1 hour ago, tomcat_driver said:

For wheeled helicopters, you can brake while on the ground. But to pay 300+£ for a rudder pedal, which also takes quite a lot of space in your office/play area, it better be versatile enough to support not only helicopters, but all your planes as well.

 

I was thinking of the OP. He doesn't fly any planes. Maybe i'm not paying attention but I can't remember seeing a chopper taxiing. They just take off from where they sit. Maybe not. I'll have to look around more now.

[PeevishMonkey]

23 часа назад, Tiger-II сказал:

I primarily fly helicopters in DCS.

for VKB there are at least 2 options for upgrade (you may set damper for motorcycle or 3-d print additional parts and use a damper lubricant)

[tomcat_driver]

24 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

 

I was thinking of the OP. He doesn't fly any planes. Maybe i'm not paying attention but I can't remember seeing a chopper taxiing. They just take off from where they sit. Maybe not. I'll have to look around more now.

Check out some of the apache pros videos from when the apache was first released. They usually taxi the apache right to the runway for a classic airplane take off. Helos like the apache, get a share of their lift from their fixed surfaces while at speed. This in turn allows them to take off using less power thus wasting less fuel, or even from higher altitudes.

[BuzzU]

Live and learn. Thanks.

[EightyDuce]

6 hours ago, PeevishMonkey said:

for VKB there are at least 2 options for upgrade (you may set damper for motorcycle or 3-d print additional parts and use a damper lubricant)

Yeah I modeled and printed a set similar to the 2nd one you linked in ABS, will see how long it lasts seems to work great so far. 

[Mars Exulte]

15 hours ago, BuzzU said:

Live and learn. Thanks.

It's actually pretty common for safety and payload reasons, just like with the Harrier. It can takeoff vertically but not with much load, a rolling takeoff allows much more.

Mi-24's commonly takeoff conventionally due to their unsuitability for hovering (especially with a full payload) and most especially at high altitudes (like Afghanistan). Even helos without wheels do the same thing, lifting very slightly off the ground and using ground effect to bouy them while they get up to speed. It's ALSO common for helos to stick to the taxiways and runways when landing/taking off at airports for the purpose of traffic control. Just because you CAN takeoff anywhere and go any direction straight from parking doesn't mean it's wise in congested airspace.

[BuzzU]

3 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

It's actually pretty common for safety and payload reasons, just like with the Harrier. It can takeoff vertically but not with much load, a rolling takeoff allows much more.

Mi-24's commonly takeoff conventionally due to their unsuitability for hovering (especially with a full payload) and most especially at high altitudes (like Afghanistan). Even helos without wheels do the same thing, lifting very slightly off the ground and using ground effect to bouy them while they get up to speed. It's ALSO common for helos to stick to the taxiways and runways when landing/taking off at airports for the purpose of traffic control. Just because you CAN takeoff anywhere and go any direction straight from parking doesn't mean it's wise in congested airspace.

I understand. Thanks for the info. However, when I made my statement of why do you need brakes on a chopper. I was thinking about in game. The OP had some questions about the VKB pedals not having brakes.

When I owned the VKB pedals I flew a lot of planes and a simple button for brakes was fine. No good for WW2 planes. Not good for the Viper due to needing rudder steering when aero braking. There's more.

So, for someone just flying choppers in DCS. Would a simple button press be good enough for brakes?

Edited December 26, 2022 by BuzzU

[Mars Exulte]

Probably. I used to fly the FC3 planes that don't have a break axis, it's not that hard to feather them (because it isn't simply ON/OFF) by clicking the button at intervals.

[Tiger-II]

On 12/25/2022 at 3:32 PM, BuzzU said:

 

I was thinking of the OP. He doesn't fly any planes. Maybe i'm not paying attention but I can't remember seeing a chopper taxiing. They just take off from where they sit. Maybe not. I'll have to look around more now.

I fly a couple, but fly helicopters more. Helicopters can be stopped on the ground by simply pulling back on the cyclic. The brakes are really just to stop it moving once you're stationary.

Helicopters do taxi. They either wheel taxi or hover taxi. Of course, helicopters with wheels can hover taxi, too.

[Dangerzone]

On 12/26/2022 at 11:26 PM, BuzzU said:

When I owned the VKB pedals I flew a lot of planes and a simple button for brakes was fine. No good for WW2 planes. Not good for the Viper due to needing rudder steering when aero braking.

I haven't had issues with the Spitfire, Mozzie, or the F16 with my VKB T-Rudders and no toe brakes. The only difference maybe is that I have my brakes on an axis, and not a button. The rest seems to work quite well. I don't know if DCS natively does some black magic behind the scenes or not. Especially with the WW2 birds - all I have to do is apply the slighest of breaking, and use the T-Rudders, and the turn is responsive as though 

[BuzzU]

I just ordered VKB pedals again. I'll use them for the A-10C II and Hornet.

Edited December 29, 2022 by BuzzU