Tips for diving

[Bloyamind]

Hi all,

First of all, if there's a topic on this already, feel free to remove this one. Second: I love this module. My nickname for it is the Tuna, as the 'body' is exactly like a tuna to me: fat, yet streamlined :). 

It's providing me with a challenge, coming from the Spitfire. My tactics up to getting this module were mostly: get on someone's tail, pull lead, shoot. Someone on your tail? Out-turn and out-run. My first mistake (still prevalent) in the P47 is to think I'm in a Spitfire.

I've been practicing dogfights against a BF109. Now the P47 has good dive-speed, but the BF109 always seems to catch up. Question 1: how to achieve ideal dive acceleration? I've learned not to keep the power of my engine up in combination with low RPM, but on the other hand I want low drag. That's a little puzzle I've been wondering about: High power + high RPM, vs. low power + low RPM + gravity. Question two is linked.. if this is not it, then what is the best way to get a 109 of your tail? Once it's there it seems stuck to me like glue, whatever I do. I can't seem to out-turn, out-dive or out-climb it. Overshoot might be an idea, but the Tuna doesn't feel like it likes scissoring either... 

In any case, its' not a frustration, I like a challenge, I like practicing, but just thought I might gather some tips here.
 

[grafspee]

Even if you have faster acceleration in dive you will never get separation as big as you wish unless some ww1 fighter is pursuing you. If you diving you will have to pull out eventually and if guy is far from you he can just cut the corner and he will gain on you. If you have enemy fighter on your six you lost mate if you are alone.

Ai does not make mistakes unfortunately.

P-47 actually has superior flaps and if you utilize them you can out turn K-4

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by grafspee

[303_Kermit]

1. RPM - starting the dive you shall have RPM in Green Field. 2550 is perfect. Set up RPM first since after you start your dive, the rpm. governor won't respond. On higher altitude you need to lower Manifold to be able to lower rpm sometimes.
2. While being in the dive keep eye contact with the target, don't bother the gauges. P-47 is a killer, you just have to adjust your flight- and fight-style. After 3-5 seconds of stabilized dive reduce manifold (if you operate separate - boost lower up to 50% and after next 1-3 sec. close totally. If you connect levers, slowly throttle down to 50%)
3. you may dive up to 60° these way - its enough to catch in a dive everything what flies. To do that:
4. Every enemy levels off someday. Come back to power (manifold 52 or 64 with water) smoothly, but keep 2550rpm. Power is smaller but Thrust (on high speed) isn't. You need higher RPM mostly during climb. In level flight and dive it's a waste of resources.

5. Remember - The jug keeps speed much longer than any Warbird in DCS. I cathed even FW190D. Not in a dive... but 30 sec. after a dive, when his plane stabilized it's speed. P-47 poseses gigantic kinetic energy even after one minute you're much faster than enemy who normally shall outrun you.
6. before every water injection look at a timer and say loudly what minute you see. You do that for yourself to remember how long can you keep it. In case of any problems keep 2°-3°below horizon, 2550rpm, use water and 64 manifold. Jug always bring you home these way. You don't need to be perfect in aerobatic to be P-47 ace. Actually many maneuvers are in P-47 ... forbidden. All you need is to set shooting range 1000ft, wing span 33ft, and aim where K-14 tells you. I use "strafing" belt - I love that it's full of API   "Burn baby burn! "

Time on max. Manifold + max. RPM is limited

7. Keep plane perfectly trimmed

never shall you ever:
-turnfight against Bf-109 below 25 000ft
-avoid vertical manouver unless it's energy fight, and you're really patient.
-fly alone.
-climb (even if you're faster) with enemy on your #6. Keep your speed, separate, climb, come back and attack in 5°-10° dive.
-defend using scissors. Any type you choose -energy, classic, rolling is bad... Accept vertical scissors in dive if 109 chases you, the reasons are obvious.
-low + slow =dead

Remember : if you run too long on water, and/or high RPM (above green lvl) you will destroy your engine by throttling down to economic level.
 

Edited February 2, 2023 by 303_Kermit

[Cool-Hand]

Like in aviation the answer depends on what you want to do when the 109 gets on your six. If it's escape, best you can do is max power (manifold and RPM) WEP to get the best acceleration going down hill, hit your max speed, then shallow out the dive and milk the altitude for max speed as long as practical. If you are reducing power you are wasting altitude for power reduction, which wont help your case. If you dive too steeply like was said above the 109 will just simply catch you on the deck when you level off and bleed off your excess dive speed. Of course depending on if it's AI or player, they might lose interest after a long tail chase.

If you are going try and scrape off the 109, that's not too hard provided you have altitude to spare. The Jug has great high speed maneuverability where the 109 doesn't. I've found with the AI and most encounters online, above 300mph the jug can handily out turn and out roll a 109k4. So back to your diving scenario with the 109k4 on your six, if you initiate a rolling scissors going downhill you will definitely get him off your six in a couple of rotations, even better is to get him vertically pointed down and fast. Once this happens, you can use the Jugs best ability, which is to bleed speed and turn onto him while he tries to reverse course out of the vertical dive. You can also get him into a high speed turning match provided you have the altitude to dip into to maintain your speed and point your guns at him in a few turns.

Not to say the Jug is a slouch slow speed fighting either especially with flaps but if you are fighting a player, a good 109 pilot is going to be able to get above you and when you are slow you don't have a lot of options when that happens.

Flying the P-47, think straight lines and gentle turns (less than 2G's or you bleed speed in longer maneuvers) until you are ready to strike, then you can crank into the high G maneuvers that bleed your speed that you shepherded by flying gently. The catch is once you've blown your speed it takes altitude or time to get back after you strike, so make sure you have one or the other in reserve. 

[303_Kermit]

8 hours ago, Cool-Hand said:

Like in aviation the answer depends on what you want to do when the 109 gets on your six. If it's escape, best you can do is max power (manifold and RPM) WEP to get the best acceleration going down hill, hit your max speed, then shallow out the dive and milk the altitude for max speed as long as practical. If you are reducing power you are wasting altitude for power reduction, which wont help your case. If you dive too steeply like was said above the 109 will just simply catch you on the deck when you level off and bleed off your excess dive speed. Of course depending on if it's AI or player, they might lose interest after a long tail chase.

If you are going try and scrape off the 109, that's not too hard provided you have altitude to spare. The Jug has great high speed maneuverability where the 109 doesn't. I've found with the AI and most encounters online, above 300mph the jug can handily out turn and out roll a 109k4. So back to your diving scenario with the 109k4 on your six, if you initiate a rolling scissors going downhill you will definitely get him off your six in a couple of rotations, even better is to get him vertically pointed down and fast. Once this happens, you can use the Jugs best ability, which is to bleed speed and turn onto him while he tries to reverse course out of the vertical dive. You can also get him into a high speed turning match provided you have the altitude to dip into to maintain your speed and point your guns at him in a few turns.

Not to say the Jug is a slouch slow speed fighting either especially with flaps but if you are fighting a player, a good 109 pilot is going to be able to get above you and when you are slow you don't have a lot of options when that happens.

Flying the P-47, think straight lines and gentle turns (less than 2G's or you bleed speed in longer maneuvers) until you are ready to strike, then you can crank into the high G maneuvers that bleed your speed that you shepherded by flying gently. The catch is once you've blown your speed it takes altitude or time to get back after you strike, so make sure you have one or the other in reserve. 

I don't think anyone needs advice to fight single AI? They're not very smart. They fight like it's F-16 not Bf-109. Especially funny are those bogey-wogee whoen they're in Crosschair

You may out-roll AI - even if it's FW-190 (Sic!) but don't try it PvP.

[Bloyamind]

Thanks a lot for taking the time :). Getting to grips with how the P47 flies. It's a lovely plane. I will definitely read your replies some more and try with those tips.