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One step from the bleeding edge


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So I haven't built a system in 5 years or so. Intel/Nvidia centric (used to play with AMD/Radeon, but those days are over after some bad components caused no end of frustration).

Looking at all the new offerings, I'm sort of overwhelmed (CPUs have gotten crazy complicated - at least to me).

If you were going to build the 'one step from the bleeding edge' system, what would be your wish/wants? 

DCS specific build, not worried about encoding videos or other production applications.

CPU - i7-12700K

Motherboard - ROG STRIX Z690 (only part I'll really splurge on)

Memory - DDR5 5600

Graphics Card - 4080 16gb

Power Supply - CORSAIR RM1000e

Drive - SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 2280 2TB

ATX case with water cooling for CPU

What do you think?

Ruddle.

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 Hmmmm... This is going to be long 😬 bare with me... 

Intel 12th gen is 2021. There is a newer generation after that, released in 4th quarter 2022 and it's faster - Intel 13th gen ("Raptor Lake") and respective Z790 motherboards.

You want an Intel system and, in my opinion and as of today, a good one for DCS and gaming in general would be something like this:
 

  • CPU (Processor):
    Intel 13th gen "Raptor Lake", either the i5 13600K or the i7 13700K.
    Also note that either of these two Intel CPUs also exhist in "KF" versions - only difference here is no onboard graphics, and that makes them slightly less expensive. 
    There isn't much difference (if any) for DCS and gaming in general. So it's hard to justify going for anything higher than the i5 13600K, if that's the only use case.
    But if it's meant to be used for many years and especially if you're frequently streaming, or doing heavy workloads, VMs, etc, then yeah the i7 13700K is totally justifiable.
     
  • CPU cooler: 
    Very important for Intel 13th gen "K" processors - make very sure that whatever you get is a newer version with LGA 1700 compatibility, no matter the brand/model.
    A few personal recommendations:
    If you prefer air cooling (best value choice, and if not overclocking) - Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 (ARGB or non-ARGB).
    If you prefer liquid cooling (better choice if overclocking)- Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 or 360 (ARGB or non-ARGB).
     
  • Motherboard:
    I see you're a fan of ASUS motherboards, but they haven't been the most stable (BIOS issues and mem instability with XMP have occured) with 12th and 13th gen Intel.
    I'm a sucker for MSI (they still are the most consistent in quality, and great compatibility), so I'd recommend the MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR5.
     
  • RAM:
    DDR5 6400 CL32 is the sweet spot for Intel 13th gen, and 64GB total memory size is the most recommended for DCS. There aren't many of such kits around, but the ones available are great (Hynix M die, good stuff) and usually cost around $370.
    I'd recommend this kit: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB 64GB DDR5 6400 CL32 - F5-6400J3239G32GX2-TZ5RK 
    Besides in black, it's also available in white (the "S" final word in the part n. determines that), your pick.
     
  • Storage:
    NVMe gen4, either 1TB (minimum) or 2TB (ideal).
    If your preference is for Samsung, then the 980Pro is excelent indeed, but avoid the newer Samsung 990 models (RMAs gallore!). 
    An alternative is the Corsair MP600 Force series if you find the 1TB and 2TB models at discounted prices - fast and durable, no difference in DCS or any other games.
    Avoid any cheaper model that is Dram-less, even if low prices are tempting (only exception is the WD Black SN770, it's great considering price), especially if you're going to use Windows and DCS in the same drive.
     
  • GPU (graphics card):
    Nvidia for sure, which one will depend mostly on the screen(s) resolution you're using (or if using VR). 
    You chose the RTX 4080 16GB - that's excelent, right now the 2nd fastest available in the market. Any RTX4080 model is good, go for whichever is most affordable.
    However, if you're intending to keep a GPU for four years or more, and/or a VR junkie and not caring about expense, then get the very best - RTX 4090 24GB
     
  • PSU (Power Supply Unit):
    ≥ 1000W top rated model from renowned manufacturer, "80+Gold" (minimum) or "80+ Platinum" (preferable), and better if newest ATX 3.0 spec (though not mandatory).
    You've chosen a Corsair RM1000e and that's a good choice for a i5 13600K (or i7 13700K) and RTX4080 16GB system.
    There are some excelent alternatives to it that are newer ATX3.0 specification, such as the Bequiet! Pure Power 12M 1000W and the MSI MPG A1000G PCIE5.
    That said, if going for a far pricier i7 13700K and RTX4090 24GB system, and even if these mentioned PSUs work quite OK there, perhaps to consider a good 1200W or 1300W PSU wouldn't be a bad move (slight overkill but sure to last reliably, even be used on a following system).
     
  • Computer ATX Case:
    Best build quality and airflow for lowest price, I don't think there's any better than the Lian Li LANCOOL III.

 


Edited by LucShep
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*stay away from Samsung 990Pro right now, especially the 2TB SKU.

 

They have an issue with wear level.... google the news and fears

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On 2/4/2023 at 12:19 AM, LucShep said:

 Hmmmm... This is going to be long 😬 bare with me... 

Intel 12th gen is 2021. There is a newer generation after that, released in 4th quarter 2022 and it's faster - Intel 13th gen ("Raptor Lake") and respective Z790 motherboards.

You want an Intel system and, in my opinion, right now a good one for DCS and gaming in general, without going overboard, would be something like this:
 

  • CPU (Processor):
    Intel 13th gen "Raptor Lake", either the i5 13600K or the i7 13700K.
    Also note that either of these two Intel CPUs also exhist in "KF" versions - only difference here is no onboard graphics, and that makes them slightly less expensive. 
    There isn't much difference (if any) for DCS and gaming in general. So it's hard to justify going for anything higher than the i5 13600K, if that's the only use case.
    But if it's meant to be used for many years and especially if you're frequently streaming, or doing heavy workloads, VMs, etc, then yeah the i7 13700K is totally justifiable.
     
  • CPU cooler: 
    Very important for Intel 13th gen "K" processors - make very sure that whatever you get is a newer version with LGA 1700 compatibility, no matter the brand/model.
    A few personal recommendations:
    If you prefer air cooling (best value choice, and if not overclocking) - Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 (ARGB or non-ARGB).
    If you prefer liquid cooling (better choice if overclocking)- Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 or 360 (ARGB or non-ARGB).
     
  • Motherboard:
    I see you're a fan of ASUS motherboards, but they haven't been the most stable (BIOS issues and mem instability with XMP have occured) with 12th and 13th gen Intel.
    I'm a sucker for MSI (they still are the most consistent in quality, and great compatibility), so I'd recommend the MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR5.
     
  • RAM:
    DDR5 6400 CL32 is the sweet spot for Intel 13th gen, and 64GB total memory size is the most recommended for DCS. There aren't many of such kits around, but the ones available are great (Hynix M die) and usually cost around $380.
    I'd recommend this kit: G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB 64GB DDR5 6400 CL32 - F5-6400J3239G32GX2-TZ5RK 
    Besides in black, it's also available in white (the "S" final word in the part n. determines that), your pick.
     
  • Storage:
    NVMe gen4, either 1TB (minimum) or 2TB (ideal).
    If your preference is for Samsung, then the 980Pro is excelent indeed, but maybe avoid the newer Samsung 990 models (RMAs gallore!). 
    An alternative is the Corsair MP600 Force series if you find the 1TB and 2TB at discounted prices - plenty fast and durable, no difference in DCS or any other games.
    Avoid any cheaper model that is Dram-less, even if low prices are tempting (exception only for the WD SN770, really good considering its price), especially if you're going to use Windows and DCS in the same drive.
     
  • GPU (graphics card):
    Nvidia for sure, which one will depend mostly on the screen(s) resolution you're using (or if using VR). 
    You chose the RTX 4080 16GB - that's excelent, right now the 2nd fastest available in the market. Any RTX4080 model is good, go for whichever is most affordable.
    However, if you're intending to keep a GPU for four years or more, and/or a VR junkie and not caring about cost, then bite the bullet and get the best - RTX 4090 24GB
     
  • PSU (Power Supply Unit):
    ≥ 1000W top rated model from renowned manufacturer, "80+Gold" (minimum) or "80+ Platinum" (preferable), and better if newest ATX 3.0 spec (though not mandatory).
    You've chosen a Corsair RM1000e and that's a good choice for a i5 13600K (or i7 13700K) and RTX4080 system.
    Other good alternatives to it are newer ATX3.0 specification equivalents such as the MSI MPG A1000G PCIE5 and upcoming Bequiet! Pure Power 12M 1000W.
    That said, I'm not sure I would recommend it if going for a i7 13700K and RTX4090 system, even if it works quite "OK" there. If already spending that much, I'd go with a good 1200W or 1300W PSU, for peace of mind (sure to last reliably, even be used on the following system).
     
  • Computer ATX Case:
    Best build quality and airflow for lowest price, I don't think there's any better than the Lian Li LANCOOL III.

 

 

Hi LucShep,

Thanks for the incredible recommendations! I really appreciate the detail.

Ruddle.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/3/2023 at 12:40 PM, Greg_Mid_TN said:

So I haven't built a system in 5 years or so. Intel/Nvidia centric (used to play with AMD/Radeon, but those days are over after some bad components caused no end of frustration).

Looking at all the new offerings, I'm sort of overwhelmed (CPUs have gotten crazy complicated - at least to me).

If you were going to build the 'one step from the bleeding edge' system, what would be your wish/wants? 

DCS specific build, not worried about encoding videos or other production applications.

CPU - i7-12700K

Motherboard - ROG STRIX Z690 (only part I'll really splurge on)

Memory - DDR5 5600

Graphics Card - 4080 16gb

Power Supply - CORSAIR RM1000e

Drive - SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 2280 2TB

ATX case with water cooling for CPU

What do you think?

Ruddle.

Do a 500GB Samsung 870 EVO in the case for your OS, Joystick programs, VR/Tracker's, etc....  and a 2TB Samsung 970 PRO NVMe M.2 on the Mobo for your games. Keep them separate, if the OS craps your games are safe, along with backups... I have two 1TB NVMe M.2's on the Mobo, with the 500GB in the case. It's always been a rule of thumb for me never to put all my eggs in one basket............. or park all your planes on the ramp wing tip to wing tip....... When I build a new computer my storage drives all migrate to the new machine, saves money and time in the long run.

Cheers

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Sempre Fortis

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9 minutes ago, 352nd_Hoss said:

Do a 500GB Samsung 870 EVO in the case for your OS, Joystick programs, VR/Tracker's, etc....  and a 2TB Samsung 970 PRO NVMe M.2 on the Mobo for your games. Keep them separate, if the OS craps your games are safe, along with backups... I have two 1TB NVMe M.2's on the Mobo, with the 500GB in the case. It's always been a rule of thumb for me never to put all my eggs in one basket............. or park all your planes on the ramp wing tip to wing tip....... When I build a new computer my storage drives all migrate to the new machine, saves money and time in the long run.

Cheers

Great advice. Thanks!

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I have been doing a lot of benchmarking over the last 4 months and I did come across a little gem accidentally on storage considerations.
I was comparing two different DCS builds on their own hard disks. I coudlnt understand why I was getting quite different figures on the same settings.
Then I discovered one build was on an Samsung 980 NVMe and the other was on a Samsung 870 SSD. There was nearly 20% difference in frames delivered on a very heavy mission track we were using. This might have been exagerated by having only 8GB textures on my GPU so lots of disk IOPS and a setting with not much preload distance and maybe even the VR causing the stress to begin with, but nonetheless, under certain configurations, your disk can cost you a lot of frames. I can only enthusiastically endorse the advise to get NVMe's of high quality on that DCS drive, move off the pagefile and OS elsewhere to remove contention. It's the way to go.

On 2/15/2023 at 8:07 PM, 352nd_Hoss said:

Do a 500GB Samsung 870 EVO in the case for your OS, Joystick programs, VR/Tracker's, etc....  and a 2TB Samsung 970 PRO NVMe M.2 on the Mobo for your games. Keep them separate, if the OS craps your games are safe, along with backups... I have two 1TB NVMe M.2's on the Mobo, with the 500GB in the case. It's always been a rule of thumb for me never to put all my eggs in one basket............. or park all your planes on the ramp wing tip to wing tip....... When I build a new computer my storage drives all migrate to the new machine, saves money and time in the long run.

Cheers

 

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17 hours ago, Pikey said:

 This might have been exagerated by having only 8GB textures on my GPU so lots of disk IOPS and a setting with not much preload distance and maybe even the VR causing the stress to begin with, but nonetheless, under certain configurations, your disk can cost you a lot of frames. 

Yup, I went from a HDD to an NVME drive and I was amazed at the FPS gain. I've now put the OS, Steam and other stuff on a separate drive, although the pagefile shares the drive with DCS due to the fact the DCS drive is a lot faster (the system drive is an ancient Intel drive, and it has only two PCI 3.0 lines, so I can't do much with it). 

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