Mission 7 feedback

[Jayhawk1971]

Just finished mission 7, and it was the first one in this campaign where I felt I could have gotten above average at first try, if it hadn't been for "DCS-isms".

Had to fly the first set three times to get above average due to having to figure out how not to drift away from lead, and what to do to get the timing right for Fox3/Fox1. At least for me, Paco was late calling the maneuvers, meaning he initialized before telling me, which messed up abeam distance. He also seems to speed up considerably (without any warning) for the first centering the T, so first try when I was about to Fox 1 he was way ahead of me. I believe I remained pretty much at 400 (give or take 10 kts) throughout the turns, never below 380.

On the second set, I was better at getting distance right (other than Paco again leaving me in the dust for Fox 3 shot) and then got a "you took way too long to kill the bandit" message, which happened because my first Fox2, which I saw hit the north bandit (and got Jester's "splash") apparently didn't register. I did hear Slick say "turning in" (or engaging, can't remember) right before I pressed the trigger, but maybe the game was too slow/ I was too trigger-happy. It took a while to figure out that he was in fact not "dead", I had to re-position, which took a while.

I fixed the distance thing by going full blower at the "center the T" call, and remain in blower until I'm abeam in time for the crank.

By the third one I had it all pretty much down cold, and then the set felt really good, very immersive.

Despite the "DCS-isms" (with which we all have to live with), this has probably been my most favorite mission so far. 

Looking forward to mission 8! 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Jayhawk1971

[Reflected]

Ha, none of these are DCS-isms actually 

- The abeam distance doesn't have to be exactly 1.0000 mile, I implemented a leeway, and it's only checked before the AI is let loose to maneuver.

-You do as Paco does. If he launches a F3, you do too. He turns, you turn. He launches a F1, you launch. Without much delay.

- Paco doesn't speed up, only maybe after the merge, but as I said, abeam distance is only checked during the run.

- Pre-merge shots are not registered because you're a "conehead" (student pilot) and you need to practice BFM too, as briefed.

Good luck with Mission 8, it's gonna be even more complex!

Edited February 5, 2023 by Reflected

[Reflected]

PS: I’m intimately familiar with every way the dcs ai can be stupid or annoying, and I set up the checkpoints in a way to make sure those don’t interfere with your grade. All of them are 100% dependent on the player. 

[Jayhawk1971]

Zitat

Pre-merge shots are not registered because you're a "conehead" (student pilot) and you need to practice BFM too, as briefed.

I didn't think it was a pre-merge shot, as I did a steep descending left turn behind the north F-5 when I launched the AIM-9.  But I launched right after Slick's radio call was triggered, and I had a decent amount of lead on the bandit, so maybe it still counted as pre-merge?

Second time I waited two more seconds and the kill counted.

Zitat

he abeam distance doesn't have to be exactly 1.0000 mile, I implemented a leeway, and it's only checked before the AI is let loose to maneuver.

The second and third set went well without an urge to reload, so apparently I must have been somehow within the correct "zone", although I didn't do anything different up until the first turn:

• I spawn, frantically trim up up up up, and verify throttles are set for the right speed, maintain initial heading. The plane does yaw quite a bit right when it spawns. But the heading is 270, right?

I'm confused because IMO the "uneventful" part of the timeline (from spawn to first turn) seems to be the part where I must have drifted off, if I understood your explanation correctly, yet that's the part which I thought was the most stable one initially, hence why I keep belaboring this point.

Do you count vertical separation as well as lateral? I got quite low on the first spawn (trim was waaaaay nose down at spawn due to wings being fully swept, which caught me by surprise).

What I did differently on successful retry was: I was more aggressive throughout all turns, especially the turn to center the T when I tried again. But if I understand correctly, all of that doesn't count anymore WRT distance? 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Reflected:

You do as Paco does. If he launches a F3, you do too. He turns, you turn. He launches a F1, you launch. Without much delay.

Yup, I guessed that would be the case when I heard him say "shoot at 20" and I saw 26/25 on the TID. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Jayhawk1971

[Reflected]

No, vertical separation is not counted, DCS could only detect it in a very complicated way. And again, I left a LOT of leeway before you get a strike for being out of formation.

Paco says 'Fox 3' when he's 20 miles from his target, not when you're at 20 from yours.

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Reflected:

Paco says 'Fox 3' when he's 20 miles from his target, not when you're at 20 from yours.

I was referring to the "heads up" call before the turn back into the bandits, something like, "shoot when you're at 20 miles" (paraphrasing). At that point I was at about 26 out, so I took that as a hint to shoot right as I centered the T. And as veteran gamer  - and also because it would make sense tactically, I figured that we were supposed to shoot as close to Paco as possible to get a good score. 

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Reflected:

No, vertical separation is not counted, DCS could only detect it in a very complicated way. And again, I left a LOT of leeway before you get a strike for being out of formation.

Then I really don't understand what made the difference for me. The "gripes" I received at first try were "drifted too far away" and "took too long to kill bandit". Re the bandit part, I understand the how and why.  But for the distance part, I was convinced that I must have gotten too far away during the turns. That's what I tried to correct on the replay, and then I got an above average grade, which seemed to confirm what I had thought.  But reading the above, this sound like a case of "correlation vs coincidence".  Or I completely misunderstand what you wrote (([...]I implemented a leeway, and it's only checked before the AI is let loose to maneuver.) ?

Oh well. I know I shouldn't be overthinking this, I got great grades and we killed the bandits (multiple times) during the engagement, and I did everything correct tactically, so the point of the lesson was learned.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Jayhawk1971