Will the USN/USMC version be a separate module?

[Omega417]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:09 AM, Chewmann said:

Will the J (assuming that's the version we will get for the USN/USMC) be a separate module to purchase?

I think the answer to your question is Yes, the USN/USMC and future 3rd Phantom variant will be a separate module to purchase.

[HWasp]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:40 PM, exhausted said:

I agree with his post. The Marine and Navy jets are by far the most recognizable Phantoms, being carrierborn masters of the air and the ground. I think that those who also share that concern have shown valid reasoning here. We are not at all saying Heatblur won't do eventually do a naval Phantom in the next 5-10 years, but I would be very surprised. 

For all the expected fanfare of the F-4, just don't be surprised if you see a lot of people holding off for a proper 'tailhook' version. 

 

I think you should consider the possible preferences of people outside the US a bit more, because for me, living in Europe for example, the Navy Phantoms are a very distant thing. I have never seen one, not even in a museum. 

I'm quite certain, more people have some kind of a memory or connection to the F-4E worldwide, than any other version, simply because that was exported all around the world.

The Navy Phantoms are also cool, I'll buy that module as well, 100%, but HB has made a sound decision bringing the E first.

Honestly, we should all just be very happy, that these cold war legends finally start to show up in DCS. F-4, F-104, MiG-23, F-100, Kfir, etc. whichever version, I don't care, I'll buy them all!

[Art-J]

^ Same here (or worse, being brough up on the eastern side of Iron Curtain  ). SEA-camo and green-grey land based Phantoms were the most ubiquitous NATO versions shown in all documentaries, books, magazines. Then followed by German ones visiting the first post-cold-war airshows on "our" side after the Curtain fell (although OK, that doesn't count because in the '90s the USN versions just didn't serve anymore, right?). Being a kid I didn't even know at first this plane was initially designed to be flown out of a boat. Watching cheesy old American movies like "Hamburger Hill" or "Red Flag" only cemented perception (skewed I admit today) that land Phantoms were the only ones that flew and fought anywhere. Damn, even the crappy CGI ones in "Forrest Gump" are USAF birds If I remember correctly.

I'm also yet to see a naval one "in flesh". Gotta travel to some museum in US I guess? 

To sum it up, I also concur this was probably the reason why HB went with E first (apart from having easier access to ex-German airframes). More initial customers who recognize and remember the plane that way, even freaky customers from ex-Warsaw Pact countries. I, for example, pre-ordered this one, because it does bring some nostalgic memories, but will never buy the naval one, as it just something too "foreign" and means nothing to me.

For Americans and Brits, however, naval variant is a must I'm sure and, despite some doom-and-gloom posts here and there, I think it WILL come eventually. After all, that's what this HB's modular development framework is being created for - to make next versions faster and easier. Both variants will probably stay in eternal Early Access like the Tomcat, but they'll be here allright, in sufficiently playable state.

 

[exhausted]

4 hours ago, HWasp said:

The Navy Phantoms are also cool, I'll buy that module as well, 100%, but HB has made a sound decision bringing the E first.

Honestly, we should all just be very happy, that these cold war legends finally start to show up in DCS. F-4, F-104, MiG-23, F-100, Kfir, etc. whichever version, I don't care, I'll buy them all!

That's fine, there's even demand for DCS: I-16 and Yak-52. I would never suggest there is no audience for those choices. I'll be skipping the F-4E, but if we ever see a proper naval variant then I'll jump on it. 

1 hour ago, Art-J said:

^ Same here (or worse, being brough up on the eastern side of Iron Curtain  ). SEA-camo and green-grey land based Phantoms were the most ubiquitous NATO versions shown in all documentaries, books, magazines. Then followed by German ones visiting the first post-cold-war airshows on "our" side after the Curtain fell (although OK, that doesn't count because in the '90s the USN versions just didn't serve anymore, right?). Being a kid I didn't even know at first this plane was initially designed to be flown out of a boat. Watching cheesy old American movies like "Hamburger Hill" or "Red Flag" only cemented perception (skewed I admit today) that land Phantoms were the only ones that flew and fought anywhere. Damn, even the crappy CGI ones in "Forrest Gump" are USAF birds If I remember correctly.

I'm also yet to see a naval one "in flesh". Gotta travel to some museum in US I guess? 

To sum it up, I also concur this was probably the reason why HB went with E first (apart from having easier access to ex-German airframes). More initial customers who recognize and remember the plane that way, even freaky customers from ex-Warsaw Pact countries. I, for example, pre-ordered this one, because it does bring some nostalgic memories, but will never buy the naval one, as it just something too "foreign" and means nothing to me.

For Americans and Brits, however, naval variant is a must I'm sure and, despite some doom-and-gloom posts here and there, I think it WILL come eventually. After all, that's what this HB's modular development framework is being created for - to make next versions faster and easier. Both variants will probably stay in eternal Early Access like the Tomcat, but they'll be here allright, in sufficiently playable state.

 

Well, the Air Force flew the F-4Gs after the Cold War, but that's not the version we are getting. I am not sure the F-4Es survived in service after 1991, except as target drones. Marine F-4Ss made it to 1992, and surely would have had a role in any Cold War scenario involving Europe. I would even say there is no exact science since even retired birds continue flying, such as the F-117s.

Now, I can't really be sure of Heatblur's motives, but I would think that lack of anticipation that there would be such a preference for carrier capable F-4s would likely be the biggest reason. Who really knows?

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, exhausted said:

Now, I can't really be sure of Heatblur's motives,

This has become apparent. However no need, most of us understand it and approve of the choice, and are also looking forward to the naval variant. 

3 hours ago, exhausted said:

 

but I would think that lack of anticipation that there would be such a preference for carrier capable F-4s would likely be the biggest reason

Again, that's your personal preference filter at work, no offense intended.

 

3 hours ago, exhausted said:

 

. Who really knows?

Who really knows why they chose the most widely used, most produced, most iconic version?

Again, most of use get it.

I also have every confidence that you will be happy camper sooner than you're imagining. 

Have a great weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Gambit21

[Voyager]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:27 PM, Vampyre said:

The Marines of VMFA-323 and VMFA-531 flying off the Coral Sea in support of Operation Eagle Claw might take issue to being called ridiculous. They were flying F-4N Phantoms as the primary fleet defense of the USS Coral Sea. They were augmenting CVW-8's VF-41 and VF-84 flying F-14A's off of USS Nimitz. 

The Marines weren't flying for Iran. F-4E's were. So it would be ridiculous for the Iranian Air Force to be flying Marine planes, which is exactly what would happen if the only flyables version of the F-4 Phantom was the Navy variant. 

[Voyager]

3 hours ago, exhausted said:

That's fine, there's even demand for DCS: I-16 and Yak-52. I would never suggest there is no audience for those choices. I'll be skipping the F-4E, but if we ever see a proper naval variant then I'll jump on it. 

Well, the Air Force flew the F-4Gs after the Cold War, but that's not the version we are getting. I am not sure the F-4Es survived in service after 1991, except as target drones. Marine F-4Ss made it to 1992, and surely would have had a role in any Cold War scenario involving Europe. I would even say there is no exact science since even retired birds continue flying, such as the F-117s.

Now, I can't really be sure of Heatblur's motives, but I would think that lack of anticipation that there would be such a preference for carrier capable F-4s would likely be the biggest reason. Who really knows?

F-4G has the same, and worse, issues that the F-14D has: classification and sensitivity. 

And because it was ewar against Russian SAM systems, it requires digging into not just highly sensitive US ewar information, but highly sensitive Russian radar system parameters. 

Any plan that gets the CIA and the GRU showing up on your doorstep is a bad plan... 

[Vampyre]

7 hours ago, Voyager said:

The Marines weren't flying for Iran. F-4E's were. So it would be ridiculous for the Iranian Air Force to be flying Marine planes, which is exactly what would happen if the only flyables version of the F-4 Phantom was the Navy variant. 

The point is that the Naval Phantoms were used in Southwest Asia in a primary air defense role and goalpost moving doesn't change that. Naval Phantoms are useful on any map within the DCS environment regardless of historical significance which, in this case, is there too. An argument against naval Phantoms is effectively a moot point as the F-4E is already a done deal and Heatblur stated from the get-go that they were going to be making both naval and air farce versions. Never were the Iranians going to be without a Phantom.

[exhausted]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:50 PM, Voyager said:

The Marines weren't flying for Iran. F-4E's were. So it would be ridiculous for the Iranian Air Force to be flying Marine planes, which is exactly what would happen if the only flyables version of the F-4 Phantom was the Navy variant. 

Perhaps unintentionally, but the Iranian air force is perhaps the best represented in DCS World..... F-14, F-5, MiG-29, Mirage F1, Su-25. You were never going to be without. But yeah, the other poster had a great point about Marine F-4s performing air defense and other rules in the Persian Gulf during Iron Claw.

[badger7966]

I hope the USN/USMC versions are indeed seperate modules.....they are very differant from the Airforce versions.....Im happy to pay for both.....and a C/D.....F......and G when they come out!!!

[RevampedGrunt]

10 hours ago, badger7966 said:

I hope the USN/USMC versions are indeed seperate modules.....they are very differant from the Airforce versions.....Im happy to pay for both.....and a C/D.....F......and G when they come out!!!

F would certainly be apart of the E module imo. Everything else would be ok as a separate module.