Vault Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 And not secondary. You dont want ANY f-22s in Dogfight, not even against F-5. Did you forget our discussion on that topic ? ;) 100% agree. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Vekkinho Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Dogfighter or not, F-22 or any other plane you don't go WVR with BVR missiles on board, keep the fight BVR as long as you can. I believe that not only Raptor but every other plane should go WVR only in case of being jumped. There's an old saying "if your fight goes WVR from BVR you've done something wrong!". Exposing a 150mil $ plane to a bullets simply isn't an option but sure is considered in training of it's pilots! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
tflash Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 That's the whole point, you do not always have a choice. Of course they train to decide the battle in BVR, but they also train for the contingency that it turns WVR. And in that scenario, whatever the plane, the pilot is the limiting factor: OK an F-22 or Typhoon pilot can sustain 9G somewhat longer than a legacy pilot, but a modern day short-range missile can do 20G easily. And engage in LOAL mode. I guess in WVR, it is difficult NOT to wish JHMCS + AIM-9X class missile. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 20G ... the AIM-9M is structurally sound up to 40. A missile needs to do about 5x the g's you can do in your plane to physically guarantee a hit (or at least near-miss). AIM-120, R-77, AIM-9X - all those can do better. Anyway, that's a small FYI - you are correct, those things are desired. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
topol-m Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 20G ... the AIM-9M is structurally sound up to 40. A missile needs to do about 5x the g's you can do in your plane to physically guarantee a hit (or at least near-miss). AIM-120, R-77, AIM-9X - all those can do better. Anyway, that's a small FYI - you are correct, those things are desired. I wish we could see these numbers in FC. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Then you'd never dodge a missile ;) Missile physics and guidance are extremely complex, and it is not easy to make them work well together. You can achieve a realistic BVR behavior will less-than-realistic physics. What matters is that the missile Pk is realistic with respect to range, target aspect, and a few other details. If your missile only pulls 5g, but has Pk of 0.95 when it should, and 0.1 when it should, and everything in between, then it not being able to do 50g is nothing but a very minor issue ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
tflash Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I stumbled on this old vid: impressive! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Antartis Posted February 19, 2010 Posted February 19, 2010 I do not know if it is new, I read the first time that. http://www.ausairpower.net/raptor.html Asus Prime Z-370-A Intel core I7-8700K 3.70Ghz Ram g.skill f4-3200c16d 32gb Evga rtx 2070 Ssd samgung 960 evo m.2 500gb Syria, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Normandy 1944 Combined Arms A-10C, Mirage-2000C, F-16C, FC3 Spitfire LF Mk. IX UH-1H, Gazelle
Antartis Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/03/airforce_30_year_plan_030610w/ — F-22 Raptor: The service will spend $1.9 billion to upgrade its 180 fighter jets with improved communications and avionics gear. Retirement of the Raptors could begin in 2025. Why? Asus Prime Z-370-A Intel core I7-8700K 3.70Ghz Ram g.skill f4-3200c16d 32gb Evga rtx 2070 Ssd samgung 960 evo m.2 500gb Syria, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Normandy 1944 Combined Arms A-10C, Mirage-2000C, F-16C, FC3 Spitfire LF Mk. IX UH-1H, Gazelle
GGTharos Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 That's the lifespan of the airframe. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Antartis Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Then with fighter to replace the F-22? Logically then, the fleet of F-15 will be withdrawn from service and not think to replace the F-35, I do not think have the best performance, load weapons and stealth. Asus Prime Z-370-A Intel core I7-8700K 3.70Ghz Ram g.skill f4-3200c16d 32gb Evga rtx 2070 Ssd samgung 960 evo m.2 500gb Syria, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Normandy 1944 Combined Arms A-10C, Mirage-2000C, F-16C, FC3 Spitfire LF Mk. IX UH-1H, Gazelle
tflash Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 The bizarre thing is indeed that there might be still Eagles (F-15E) flying when F-22 is retired. The production halt of F-22 can not be explained unless there is something new in the works. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Arent F-15E's going to be replaced by F-35's? Even without F-22's, the Su-XX (PAK FA) nor J-XX will put much of a pressure to keep the raptor alive. Also it is my understanding the the 6th gen is already on paper. The last raptors would be retired somewhere 2025-2035 period, leaving a few years of gap to bring the 6th gen online, if ever the need for it materialises (The world is slowly but gradualy fading out on sectarism, so in a long term future fighters probably wont be needed at all). .
exec Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 On the USAF roadmap there is a F-X fighter entering service in 2025-2026.
GGTharos Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 ... F-23? ... :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Downey Jr. Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I'm sorry but I don't believe the F22 is gonna get retired by 2025 maybe just maybe 2035 they'll start thinking about it...if so what a ****ing huge waste of money...it's a 5th gen stealth fighter that can out fly the f-35 which isn't even out yet...how bout retire all the f-15s and our beloved falcons first? lol even the b-2 should still be flying...if its maintance cost then the military needs to rethink their long term strategy rather than shitting out 2 billion dollar bricks only to retire them before an actual war. look at how long our vietnam /cold war era jets flew for
GGTharos Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I'm sorry but I don't believe the F22 is gonna get retired by 2025 maybe just maybe 2035 they'll start thinking about it...if so what a ****ing huge waste of money...it's a 5th gen stealth fighter that can out fly the f-35 which isn't even out yet...how bout retire all the f-15s and our beloved falcons first? lol You don't have to believe it. It'll happen. At that time a bunch of the existing airframes will have reached their usable hours and will not be able to be used any more, at least not safely. Remember the F-15 that broke up in mid-air? Like that. even the b-2 should still be flying...if its maintance cost then the military needs to rethink their long term strategy rather than shitting out 2 billion dollar bricks only to retire them before an actual war. look at how long our vietnam /cold war era jets flew for They flew for about the same time. The trick is that in the middle of this new jets were being produced to replace the ones being retired. With the Raptor production line shut down, there will be no replacements. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Antartis Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 GGTharos, I agree with you, but for me it is inexplicable to withdraw from 2025. We know that any new program in our time gets even decades with delays and costly changes. And I do not think it would withdraw from 2025, surely there will be a structural upgrading. USAF needs these fighters and those F-22s that has the size of the USA is very little. What will address the PAK FA if sell in some countries and happen to need to address them? Sure no F-35...:P Asus Prime Z-370-A Intel core I7-8700K 3.70Ghz Ram g.skill f4-3200c16d 32gb Evga rtx 2070 Ssd samgung 960 evo m.2 500gb Syria, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Normandy 1944 Combined Arms A-10C, Mirage-2000C, F-16C, FC3 Spitfire LF Mk. IX UH-1H, Gazelle
Pilotasso Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Structural upgrading is not feasible for fighters. .
Downey Jr. Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 well they better keep those puppies in the hangar then because with all the new variants of older jets (ie hornet) etc. there is no jet right now or in the near future that can match the F-22 by the time F-35s come out and if they land in the other side's hand (whoever that side is for the US) then they'll be forced to take the F-22s out of retirement or make a new better 6th gen jet...which I'm sure they are working on. what a waste of cash for a jet that flew a couple of shit missions...145 mil for a bird to expensive to keep in the air
GGTharos Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 It isn't too expensive to keep flying. That's why it's still flying. If you don't use it it'll just rot away. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Downey Jr. Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 I'm sure they can preserve the planes or log less flight hours...I mean if we're talking about structural stress via flight to the frame and needing to replace it right? Unless it's made out of some material that decays in a matter of 10 years or it could be an excuse to build another fighter...all I'm saying is that it's a tremendous waste of cash if it's gonna be retired 15 years later and is way ahead of any a-a fighter jet right now
mvsgas Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Structural upgrading is not feasible for fighters. Sorry I'm jumping in the middle of this conversation ( I know this is not a smart move :D) But what do you mean that is not feasible for fighters To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
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