Synchronized elevators implemented incorrectly.

[Tim_Fragmagnet]

 

 

The synchronized elevators on our huey are symmetrical.

They aren't supposed to be.


I believe this image shows it off well enough

 

 

 

You think it's just an artifact of the old photo?

here's a newer photo

 

 

 

 

You want documented proof of it?

 

 

 

 

Page 56


 

 

Why has this never come up before even from people who look through data?



Because the data usually only ever references the right elevator alone. I don't know why.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Tim_Fragmagnet

[khajaja]

it's just a difference of 1.3 degrees, it doesn't really matter

[Tim_Fragmagnet]

4 minutes ago, khajaja said:

it's just a difference of 1.3 degrees, it doesn't really matter

If it didn't matter, they wouldn't have kept doing it for all this time.

[Sandman1330]

14 hours ago, Tim_Fragmagnet said:

Why has this never come up before even from people who look through data?

The truth? Because most people enjoy this module for what is is - a very accurate (but not perfect) representation of an iconic military helicopter.

To put things into perspective, the multi million dollar Level D simulator I train on yearly doesn't fly anything like the real thing. The DCS Huey already flies (and looks) better than a multi million dollar advanced training simulator. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good. I'd let them focus on the real issues that need resolving, and (hopefully one day!) a refresh Huey 2.0, or maybe even a Twin.

Something like a 1 degree difference in the external model for the horizontal stabs does not impact the enjoyment of the module for 99.9% of players. I admire your dedication, but for most this isn't an issue worth worrying about.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sandman1330

[Tim_Fragmagnet]

One more just to make sure it's well and truly settled that it's supposed to be this way.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Tim_Fragmagnet

[fapador]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:04 PM, Sandman1330 said:

To put things into perspective, the multi million dollar Level D simulator I train on yearly doesn't fly anything like the real thing. The DCS Huey already flies (and looks) better than a multi million dollar advanced training simulator. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good. I'd let them focus on the real issues that need resolving, and (hopefully one day!) a refresh Huey 2.0, or maybe even a Twin.

Something like a 1 degree difference in the external model for the horizontal stabs does not impact the enjoyment of the module for 99.9% of players. I admire your dedication, but for most this isn't an issue worth worrying about.

I disagree. Flight model wise, I have flown Greek Army Huey Simulator Two different versions both CAE simulator and a Greek build, cheaper variant  and its not like DCS. I have also well respected friends which are Greek Army Huey operators who had a go on DCS Huey and disliked the flightmodel. I have reported this couple years ago. For more details search for one of my previous posts in which I gave a little report/summary.

 

 

On 3/6/2023 at 6:55 AM, Tim_Fragmagnet said:

If it didn't matter, they wouldn't have kept doing it for all this time.

Now concerning the elevators, I wonder if it also affects the Fm on Flight. Its possible when the FM was created this data wasn't taken in account, And I can definitely tell you that aerodynamically wise 1.3 degrees is nothing insignificant. This might also explain weird  behavior of the current Fm requiring a lot of cyclic offset to fly Level at cruise speeds.

 

@Tim_Fragmagnet  Good catch! Your devotion on the Huey module is extraordinary. 

 

 

[Sandman1330]

On 4/9/2023 at 5:32 AM, fapador said:

I disagree. Flight model wise, I have flown Greek Army Huey Simulator Two different versions both CAE simulator and a Greek build, cheaper variant  and its not like DCS. I have also well respected friends which are Greek Army Huey operators who had a go on DCS Huey and disliked the flightmodel. I have reported this couple years ago. For more details search for one of my previous posts in which I gave a little report/summary.

 

 

Now concerning the elevators, I wonder if it also affects the Fm on Flight. Its possible when the FM was created this data wasn't taken in account, And I can definitely tell you that aerodynamically wise 1.3 degrees is nothing insignificant. This might also explain weird  behavior of the current Fm requiring a lot of cyclic offset to fly Level at cruise speeds.

 

@Tim_Fragmagnet  Good catch! Your devotion on the Huey module is extraordinary. 

 

 

1. Regarding the simulator, you are actually agreeing with me. What I said was the Level D sim flight model is not realistic (to the aircraft or DCS).

2. Feel free to disagree. I'm secure in my opinion based on thousands of hours flying helicopters. I never said it was perfect (it's not). But it's pretty good, and better than a multi million dollar professional simulator.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Sandman1330

[Sandman1330]

I also possibly am looking at it from a different perspective. I don't have expectations for a perfect flight model - that's impossible given the fact I'm using a PC joystick (albeit a quality one), without proper force trim and with a much smaller stick throw than the real thing. Add in the lack of seat of the pants feel and peripheral vision / depth perception, and it is impossible to replicate the experience of the real thing 1:1.

In short, I can't fly the DCS Huey as well as I can fly the real thing. I struggle to do precision hovering, 1 skid on inserts, etc - all things I can do second nature in the real aircraft. It's not because the DCS flight model is wrong, it's primarily a combination of the above factors.

For what it is and considering all these limitations, the Huey flight model is pretty darn good.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Sandman1330

[fapador]

2 hours ago, Sandman1330 said:

I'm using a PC joystick (albeit a quality one), without proper force trim and with a much smaller stick throw than the real thing

Its not a Pc joystick issue and if we include fixed wing aircraft in the conversation, consider this:  there are some aircraft with short sticks that are perfectly flyable in the Real World..

As a matter of fact, the short stick thing sounds more like an excuse as well as reason to sell extremely overpriced joystick extensions.

There is also an easy solution for ED,  which is  to implement a MSFS style axis reactivity tuning option which essentially slows down the response without suggesting people to use stupid curves causing nonlinearity and worsening the handling. They can remedy this once and for all....  

Now concerning the Huey, the problem is there are some, not insignificant wrong behaviors and issues in the flight model. Behaviors Totally Unintuitional for good flight training. They have been reported over the years, yet the Huey module mostly due to its age doesn't get attention as of yet. The new Engine model is a step in the correct direction but there are other issues as well, maybe even more critical..

My personal opinion, as always..., is that all ok! comments like yours, don't encourage ED to improve things but rather let them be. There is no evolvement to come out of this forum ethos. 

I always push for more, for better. but that's just me...

Edited April 17, 2023 by fapador

[Tim_Fragmagnet]

I'm just going to leave this here