new (english) manual available Manual AH64 Apache

[Clyber]

It could be me or maybe the style how this manual was written but its very cumbersome 

Take for example the Chapter Aircraft Controle, section Hold Modes page 206 and 207.  If i read Modes and Sub modes i think of some kind of hierarchical structure. Iam used to having the hierarchy broken down in pieces from the top down or visa versa first to understand how the system works. In this manual the modes are mentioned in processes without first explaining how the system is structured

At page 207 Suddenly Submodes Heading hold and Turn coordination  are beeing mentioned how they work without explaining the total hierarchical tree of the modes meaning you have not explained yet what the primary mode is or to which  primary mode these submodes belong to.  It would be helpful to first know the  Primary mode and their  Submodes maybe a scheme illustrating the Modes and Submodes ?  

Same goes for page 208.  If attitude hold ( in Position or Velocity sub-mode) is on, Heading hold is engaged. Here Position and Velocity are beeing thrown in the mix without a proper explaination  of where these submodes belong in the hierarchy. 

 Also at page 208   .Heading hold will be engaged when a few conditions are met. Why is the second point even  mentioned  in the list ?  .The Helicopter is off the weight on wheels ("squad") switch.  If the helicopter must meet a ground speed of at least 40knots and must be trimmed, obviously that means the aircraft must be flying or taxiing and is out of squad position.  Wouldnt this fit better in the general Hold modes overview.

Maybe i missed something or maybe i should get used to the style of how it written but can you keep it simple please ? 

[Floyd1212]

I was actually pretty impressed with the (361 page) manual when it was released a couple days ahead of the module release.  I'm sure they will continue to refine it to get it ready for when the module comes out of Early Access.  Hopefully some diagrams and flow charts will make it in there, as well.

When I was first learning the aircraft I was struggling with the difference between sights, sensors, and qcquisition sources, and when it finally clicked for me I started to map out an illustration (which I never finished) to help describe their relationship with each other.  That kind of thing would be nice to see in the final manual.

[Raptor9]

The DCS AH-64D's Quick Start Manual is currently undergoing a major revision to improve it's structure, content, and format. However this is occurring in parallel to other manual revisions such as the A-10C and F-16, so it will take time.

[Clyber]

Okey Raptor 9 

Thx for your response. 

[Clyber]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:30 PM, fagulha said:

Not everyone is here to be a smart ass to you or others. People here are willing take their own time to help/reply despite you like the answer or not.

The problem is your attitude towards people here and not if you ask 2 or 3 times the same question.

Either way, i will be the first to help in the future as i always try to do with everyone seeking help, but good luck with that attitude here.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

The DCS AH-64D's Quick Start Manual is currently undergoing a major revision to improve it's structure, content, and format. However this is occurring in parallel to other manual revisions such as the A-10C and F-16, so it will take time.

 

35 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

I was actually pretty impressed with the (361 page) manual when it was released a couple days ahead of the module release.  I'm sure they will continue to refine it to get it ready for when the module comes out of Early Access.  Hopefully some diagrams and flow charts will make it in there, as well.

When I was first learning the aircraft I was struggling with the difference between sights, sensors, and qcquisition sources, and when it finally clicked for me I started to map out an illustration (which I never finished) to help describe their relationship with each other.  That kind of thing would be nice to see in the final manual.

You have nailed it perfectly. 

I had the same problem with the same systems you were struggling with even after reading the manual you need to put it all together. But in this case i miss more information to put this Modes vs Submodes together. 

They way modes can ve found in the manual but Why are modes Heading hold, Turncoordination, Position and Velocity hold Submodes are called Submodes  ? 

[Clyber]

20 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

I was actually pretty impressed with the (361 page) manual when it was released a couple days ahead of the module release.  I'm sure they will continue to refine it to get it ready for when the module comes out of Early Access.  Hopefully some diagrams and flow charts will make it in there, as well.

When I was first learning the aircraft I was struggling with the difference between sights, sensors, and qcquisition sources, and when it finally clicked for me I started to map out an illustration (which I never finished) to help describe their relationship with each other.  That kind of thing would be nice to see in the final manual.

Yes you have do make some more effort to understand how the systems really work. 

But i really would like to know how come or why the modes are called Submodes.  How they work is explained but what makes them a submode ?

[admiki]

1 hour ago, Clyber said:

Yes you have do make some more effort to understand how the systems really work. 

But i really would like to know how come or why the modes are called Submodes.  How they work is explained but what makes them a submode ?

You can't activate hover hold. Or speed hold. There is no button for it. You activate attitude hold mode and then it automatically goes into submode depending on which set of conditions is met.

[Clyber]

Thx for you response admiki,

Ah okey. Thx for explaining. And I think i found what i was looking for. 

Page 207. ---  Additional switching logic is determined based on whether Attitude Hold is activated and if the force trim release switch is being depressed, as described below. ---

Page 211  --The FMC Pitch and Roll channels operate with Attitude Hold and two additional sub-modes: Position Hold and Velocity Hold.---

All these four Heading, Turncoordination, Velocity and Position hold are Attitudehold  Submodes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Clyber

[Chic]

On 3/14/2023 at 12:38 PM, Clyber said:

It could be me or maybe the style how this manual was written but its very cumbersome 

Take for example the Chapter Aircraft Controle, section Hold Modes page 206 and 207.  If i read Modes and Sub modes i think of some kind of hierarchical structure. Iam used to having the hierarchy broken down in pieces from the top down or visa versa first to understand how the system works. In this manual the modes are mentioned in processes without first explaining how the system is structured

At page 207 Suddenly Submodes Heading hold and Turn coordination  are beeing mentioned how they work without explaining the total hierarchical tree of the modes meaning you have not explained yet what the primary mode is or to which  primary mode these submodes belong to.  It would be helpful to first know the  Primary mode and their  Submodes maybe a scheme illustrating the Modes and Submodes ?  

Same goes for page 208.  If attitude hold ( in Position or Velocity sub-mode) is on, Heading hold is engaged. Here Position and Velocity are beeing thrown in the mix without a proper explaination  of where these submodes belong in the hierarchy. 

 Also at page 208   .Heading hold will be engaged when a few conditions are met. Why is the second point even  mentioned  in the list ?  .The Helicopter is off the weight on wheels ("squad") switch.  If the helicopter must meet a ground speed of at least 40knots and must be trimmed, obviously that means the aircraft must be flying or taxiing and is out of squad position.  Wouldnt this fit better in the general Hold modes overview.

Maybe i missed something or maybe i should get used to the style of how it written but can you keep it simple please ? 

Yah, that section is a word salad.  I found converting it to a schematic helpful.