Realistic Pilot Seat FOV

[KeyserSoze62]

I've searched but couldn't find an answer to my specific question. I am curious what a realistic FOV from the pilot seat is in the Apache. I've seen many YouTubers and posters in here show screenshots that vary greatly in cockpit. I am speaking NON-VR only just single monitor.

The first image seems to be very common in a lot of the videos I see but doesn't seem realistic to me based on photos I have seen of pilots in the cockpit.  The second image here is where I run the sim.

I would love to hear from the real pilots in here what it should look like. I realize all pilots are different size and height which would make a difference but in general which of these two images is most realistic? I should maybe add I use TrackIR so I can look around. I realize some may use a wider FOV if they don't use head tracking so they can see more of cockpit but again I just wonder what is realistic.

Thanks.

Edited March 21, 2023 by KeyserSoze62

[deloy]

Hi, 

You cant compare real pilot perspective with flat screen, just use the FOV to suit your perspective based on situation you are in.  Sometimes, you need to zoom in to get more information from displays, sometimes you zoom out to get better all round view, on top of that, there is no peripheral vision to help you.  Headtracking gear may help, although I never used VR in DCS now but I guess that gives you the most realistic perspective in simming, other limitations aside. 

Cheers

[KeyserSoze62]

9 hours ago, deloy said:

Hi, 

You cant compare real pilot perspective with flat screen, just use the FOV to suit your perspective based on situation you are in.  Sometimes, you need to zoom in to get more information from displays, sometimes you zoom out to get better all round view, on top of that, there is no peripheral vision to help you.  Headtracking gear may help, although I never used VR in DCS now but I guess that gives you the most realistic perspective in simming, other limitations aside. 

Cheers

I appreciate the response but I understand all that.  All I'm asking is, from someone who has actually sat in the pilot seat, what is generally the most accurate perspective for the pilot looking straight forward in the seat of those two images.  How close are you essentially to the displays, how much do you see over the top of the panels, etc. etc.  Nothing complicated.

[Poptart]

What deloy is trying to tell you is that no one view is correct because human vision doesn't work like a monitor. While I've only sat in the apache cockpit a couple of times at an airshow, I spent a lot of time in other cockpits. With both eyes open a human being can see about 180 degrees horizontally. But visual acuity depends on focus and the distance from center. At 180 degrees you're only going to be able to detect fast moving objects at the edge of your vision. At 130 degrees you can discriminate colors. At 60 degrees smaller symbols become legible. At 5 degrees you can resolve very fine detail.

 

So taking your screenshots as examples, both are wrong because sitting on a taxiway you would be able to easily resolve the lettering on a taxiway sign in the distance. At the same time, if you're just sitting in the cockpit without a focus on any particular thing, the widest field of view might be appropriate if you're just looking out for people standing right next to the aircraft. None of the screenshots are accurate as to the IHADS either. 

Edit: As far as the angle is concerned, I remember being able to just see over the boresight and being able to see the top of the person's head in front of me in a normal seating position at 5 feet 9 inches tall.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Poptart

[KeyserSoze62]

2 hours ago, Poptart said:

Edit: As far as the angle is concerned, I remember being able to just see over the boresight and being able to see the top of the person's head in front of me in a normal seating position at 5 feet 9 inches tall.

 

I genuinely appreciate your feedback but perhaps I need to somehow rephrase my question. This last sentence in your reply comes closest to answering my question. I understand everything you said about the human vision and the FOV, visual acuity etc.  But all I really want to know is just what you partially shared here in this last sentence. If i was sitting in an Apache right now looking straight forward, how close would the displays be to me, how much over the boresight would I see as an average height man, etc.  I'm using head tracking so I don't need to know what the peripheral FOV is I can turn and see all that. Just want to know from some of the real apache pilots I know we have in here what that distance is or which of the images I posted comes closest to demonstrating that? If I went out and sat in my Acura RDX right now I could draw an image that demonstrates what my view and spacing is like looking straight ahead relevant to the dash. If I sat in a big 4x4 Pickup that would probably be a bit different.  That's all I'm trying to get a feel for and then I can set my FOV to best match that.

 

This Youtube video explains what I'm trying to do. In this he explains how he adjusted his FOV to be more realistic. He talks about this from his experience in the jets and having been at Nellis and seen that view. Looking at the pilot from external view and how close he is to the HUD he adjusts the FOV to better represent that distance.  Its not perfect because yes its a flat screen monitor but its closer.  Thanks again.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by KeyserSoze62

[deloy]

Considering your case, I can say that from my perspective, if you try to set up your view to match real world sight line, you always end up higher than what you would want in a sim, and you will have tough time trying to read instruments/MFDs.  So in a sim you compromise a bit so your sight line is lower than what it would be in real aircraft.  Although I have no real experience in Apache, judging from my experience in 2D and with Headtracker, I would suggest your Pic No.2 with a slightly raised sight-line.  For Pic No. 1, same applies but for scenarios where you have to focus on visual cues e.g hovering or doing pure VFR.

Off course above is subjective and based on my particular 2D setup, with different setups and types of monitors/size etc. some things may be different.

Remember that in real world conventional VFR flying, pilots spend more time looking outside view than instruments, which is normally not the case in sim as you need cues which can be felt in real aircraft.

Obviously with VR things are totally different.

Cheers

[McGraw]

In sim racing, having an accurate, or at least not an overly wide field for your monitor size and viewing distance makes it easier to be more consistent and perhaps faster.

The benefits I can think of for this in the Apache is for realism, immersion, target spotting and matching your head tracker to the on screen results. I sit close to a 42" and like a realistic fov in the front seat but prefer to see a bit more in the back.

You can only get a realistic fov outside vr is with a big triple screen set up so that the Apache mfrs are approx the same size as in real life.

Otherwise you have to accept flying from the view from a go pro on the helmet.

Edited April 1, 2023 by McGraw

[Scott-S6]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:35 AM, deloy said:

You cant compare real pilot perspective with flat screen, just use the FOV to suit your perspective based on situation you are in.  Sometimes, you need to zoom in to get more information from displays, sometimes you zoom out to get better all round view, on top of that, there is no peripheral vision to help you.  

OP has track IR so he can just lean forward to look at the displays more closely and turn his head slightly to look over his shoulder.

The reason OP sees these different FOVs is because of different equipment - screen without head tracking (needs to be zoomed in and out situationally), screen with head tracking (typically close to pic 2), head mounted display (typically close to pic 1).

OP, if you want to calibrate for your display then the A10's canopy bow is very useful. Grab one of the sets of cockpit plans, draw a triangle with the a point at the center of the pilot's head and the other two at the base of the canopy bow. Measure how far the center of your head is from the monitor and you can work out how wide the canopy bow should measure on your screen. Adjust the zoom accordingly.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Scott-S6

[Minhal]

You can simply use a FOV calculator to set up a kind of realistic setting. I for example run a 24" monitor and sit about 70cm from it.
If i was sitting in a real A-10C holding an empty picture frame (24" across diagonally) at 70cm from my face, the area inside the picture frame would look like this:

You can hit left ctrl+pause twice to open the console, which also shows current FOV. Use Numpad / and * to adjust, right alt+numpad0 will save your current viewport (including the direction you look. So pause TrackIR, look straight ahead, then adjust FOV).

As one can see, real life FOV does not really make sense on small screens as your viewport is quite narrow. Hence the "zoomed out" distortion in video games and simulations. With a wider monitor though, it can be beneficial to go closer to reality, as everything you see on your monitor becomes as big as it would be in real life from that viewpoint.

Also, as mentioned, it is not really possible to recreate the exact sensations as the human eye covers roughly 180° of view while we look through that small frame aka monitor. You would need a curved monitor that fills your whole 180° field of view. This peripheral view outside that "picture frame" is btw also responsible for the sense of speed that is missing in the simulation. If you widen the ingame FOV during flight to max (140°) you get a better sense of what 300 kts feel like.

[Hootman9104]

Here is a screen grab from a GoPro. It's hard to tell, and I don't know much about GoPro mounting, I think maybe it's on top of the helmet, based on the elevation above the boresight tube. Or, after boresight, maybe they elevate their seat for better visibility. But it would still show in general how close he is to the instrument panel.

I think you are asking how close to the instrument panel you would be, and this is a somewhat fair representation.