Yuriks Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 In IR modae, radar off, does it lead target or chases the heat?
escaner Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 All versions at least since the 9P go lead pursuit. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Shimmergloom667 Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Yuriks said: In IR modae, radar off, does it lead target or chases the heat? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H
Ghosty141 Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 vor 3 Stunden schrieb Shimmergloom667: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation This would only work within the limits of the seeker though, for example and aim9m would have a hard time the close it gets, right?
Shimmergloom667 Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ghosty141 said: This would only work within the limits of the seeker though, for example and aim9m would have a hard time the close it gets, right? This Thread is not about the 9M, but yeah - obviously that has it's limitations with regards to FOV etc. i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H
Yuriks Posted April 18, 2023 Author Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Shimmergloom667 said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation Edited April 18, 2023 by Yuriks 1
Yuriks Posted April 18, 2023 Author Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) Does heat seaker have the same info as radar to lead, ie target velocity and speed Edited April 18, 2023 by Yuriks
Shimmergloom667 Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 59 minutes ago, Yuriks said: Does heat seaker have the same info as radar to lead, ie target velocity and speed It does not need that for efficient proportional navigation. 1 i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H
Temetre Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) vor 8 Stunden schrieb escaner: All versions at least since the 9P go lead pursuit. Were there Sidewinders without proportional navigation? Feels like it would be incredibly difficult to hit anything without it. Even bombers. Maybe I should just try the oldest sidewinder I can find in DCS, must be easy to see. vor 1 Stunde schrieb Yuriks: Does heat seaker have the same info as radar to lead, ie target velocity and speed Heat seakers just "see" the radiated heat from targets, its like vision. So no range, and they cant make assumptions about range or speed. They only know the angle of the enemy to the missile, and his vague flight direction. What they can do is proportional navigation. In the most basic form it can mean "always aim 5 degrees ahead of the point (heat source) youre aiming at". The magic happens how these static degrees scale with range. On long range, the missile will fly almost straight at the enemy, but the closer it comes, the more it will aim ahead of the enemy. Just by keeping the angle to the target the same, the missile flies a highly effective interception maneuver. And then you just need a fuse for when the missile passes the enemy. Its kinda crazy how simple yet effective this works. edit: Also this just lead me to the revelation that semi active missiles probably dont know distance to enemy targets either (except programming at launch). I wonder if they put laser range finders into missiles, that could help? Edited April 18, 2023 by Temetre 2
Yuriks Posted April 18, 2023 Author Posted April 18, 2023 Thank you How does it know direction where to apply 5 degrees Does the aircraft pitch and bank affects its nav decision ?
Temetre Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) vor 11 Minuten schrieb Yuriks: Thank you How does it know direction where to apply 5 degrees Does the aircraft pitch and bank affects its nav decision ? Thats a good question, im not exactly sure myself. But I guess the missile would know that just by seeing how the enemy target moves relative to the missile sensor. Like, if the sensor sees the target move left, then it knows it has to lead the target towards the left. But it would be tricky to see the difference between just having to make an adjustment to keep the correct angle, and the enemy aircraft turning. Will likely cause a delayed reactoin to enemy turns. Edited April 18, 2023 by Temetre 1
escaner Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 If the target stays in the same relative position, you are in a collision course. Otherwise manouver accordingly. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Temetre Posted April 19, 2023 Posted April 19, 2023 Am 18.4.2023 um 21:23 schrieb escaner: If the target stays in the same relative position, you are in a collision course. Otherwise manouver accordingly. Yeah, I guess the missile can just subtracts its rotation from the sensor movement and whats left is the enemy relative movement. Thats probably enough. That said, i just remembered we were talking about the Aim-9 at the beginning. Im sure that one has some crazy programmable control logic, better sensor etc.
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