[Resolved] A Merged Radar Return will drop all radar returns when it splits.

[BlackDragon]

Hi! Potentially complicated issue to explain but it seems that when a single return (that is actually two aircraft) gets close enough that the return splits into two separate contacts that it will drop (X out) all returns on the TID.  Seems problematic for numerous reasons, I have a recording of this and a TacView screenshot of what was seen at the time:

 

[IronMike]

Thank you for the report!

Can you reproduce this consistently? It looks a bit like coincidence to me, as right after it splits the track one more time in your video, without x-outing the other ones.

If the splitting was the cause, I am not sure if it is a bug either. Tactical ping for @Naquaii.

[BlackDragon]

This snip here shows the TID moment in question just after launch, the two groups front right are marked as lost.  I also would point out that you can see these groups sending returns on the DDD so the radar is painting them as expected.  I'm just unsure what's going on as those aircraft are closing hot and have no reason to drop.  (Again as can be seen on the DDD during launch on the video).

Also adding the tacview file, the engagement in question happens around 2:57.

I agree that it could be a coincidence, the split contacts is my "best guess" as it were. Still, closing hot tracks with good consistent returns on the DDD while in TWS AUTO shouldn't spontaneously drop everything on the TID on launch.

 

Tacview-20230402-221644-DCS-RandomCAS.zip(1).acmi

Edited April 25, 2023 by BlackDragon

[IronMike]

17 hours ago, BlackDragon said:

This snip here shows the TID moment in question just after launch, the two groups front right are marked as lost.  I also would point out that you can see these groups sending returns on the DDD so the radar is painting them as expected.  I'm just unsure what's going on as those aircraft are closing hot and have no reason to drop.  (Again as can be seen on the DDD during launch on the video).

Also adding the tacview file, the engagement in question happens around 2:57.

I agree that it could be a coincidence, the split contacts is my "best guess" as it were. Still, closing hot tracks with good consistent returns on the DDD while in TWS AUTO shouldn't spontaneously drop everything on the TID on launch.

 

Tacview-20230402-221644-DCS-RandomCAS.zip(1).acmi 2.36 MB · 1 download

 

I would principally agree ofc, but the AWG-9 is an old and somewhat finnicky system, so I am myself a bit unsure if this is within the realm of "can totally happen" or more towards "definitely a bug".

Please keep us updated if you notice this happen again, or if it was a one-off, the reasons for the latter can be as numerous as one expects, from lag, to (micro-stutter) or anything in between.

Either way we will keep an eye on it, thanks again for the report. If it happens again, a track would be really helpful, fwiw, if in any way possible.

[RustBelt]

Only the DDD tells the truth, the TID tells a story.

[BlackDragon]

Yes, hence why the DDD is included in the video where you can see returns.

[RustBelt]

You misunderstand. The TID is clueless. One return splits and the TID track is dead because it can’t make a call on which return to assign to the old track. If you STT on what turns out to be 2 targets, it will select the more reflective one to stay locked, but it has to drop its tracks and start over in TWS mode because it’s running on Pacman level hardware.

[BlackDragon]

Had this happen again though on the same server.  Sadly I lack a video this time around.  And as was with last time: this is 100% still getting returns on the DDD with every sweep.

[Dragon1-1]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:44 PM, IronMike said:

I would principally agree ofc, but the AWG-9 is an old and somewhat finnicky system, so I am myself a bit unsure if this is within the realm of "can totally happen" or more towards "definitely a bug".

It would be hilarious if it turned out to be a bug in actual AWG-9 logic that you unwittingly reproduced.  Those early computers had a lot of quirks of their own.

[BlackDragon]

AAAAAAAAAAAAaaand to come full circle with an upcoming update: https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/posts/pfbid02qhDTWYKT9BDaibdC9gjS84P42nab3HWrvonK7AdvLZWW9EyK5htzMtJQFamrxRX6l

 

Feels great to see this get fixed, and that this wasn't just a misread of the instruments/intended behavior.  Thanks to HB for their due diligence on this!