16 pin power connection

[Shibbyland]

About to buy an RTX 4070 card.

id like to get the MSI X trio but I note it’s a 16 pin connection. MSI supply a 2x 8 pin adapter for older power supplies (which is me). 
 

Does anybody know if this compromises the performance at all? 
 

im running an RTX 2060 at the moment with a 6+2 pin and a 6 pin connection. 
 

My power supply only has three 6+2 connections.

[kksnowbear]

There were two variants of the 2060; one had a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 160 watts, the other was 185 watts.  Although a 4070 has a higher TDP at 200W, it's not so much higher as to cause problems in your case.  Technically, even one of the 6+2 connections is enough to power a GPU at 225w (considering that the PCIe slot itself provides 75w), which is more than the 4070 actually requires.

Often, manufacturers use hardware that is slightly more capable than what's actually required, either because of being 'safe' with power requirements or because of manufacturing considerations - for example, I can tell you there's no way the 2060 you have now would ever use 300w, which is what one 6+2 and one 6 pin connector will provide (again, given the 75w from the slot itself).

Unless you have a really bad quality PSU or it's really (really) old/weak, you'll be fine.  The 4070 200w TDP is well within what a 2x 8pin adapter can provide (technically, that's 375w, which is actually beyond even the PCIe 3.0 specification, FWIW).  If I'm following what you said, your PSU has three 6+2 connectors, and the 4070 adapter only requires two, so there are more than enough connectors.

The GPU itself won't even know the difference, with the adapter.  As a formally trained electronics tech with 40+ years experience, I'm not personally a fan of adapters TBH...but (as much as it kills my soul to say this lol) they exist for a reason.

HTH - good luck

[Shibbyland]

21 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

There were two variants of the 2060; one had a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 160 watts, the other was 185 watts.  Although a 4070 has a higher TDP at 200W, it's not so much higher as to cause problems in your case.  Technically, even one of the 6+2 connections is enough to power a GPU at 225w (considering that the PCIe slot itself provides 75w), which is more than the 4070 actually requires.

Often, manufacturers use hardware that is slightly more capable than what's actually required, either because of being 'safe' with power requirements or because of manufacturing considerations - for example, I can tell you there's no way the 2060 you have now would ever use 300w, which is what one 6+2 and one 6 pin connector will provide (again, given the 75w from the slot itself).

Unless you have a really bad quality PSU or it's really (really) old/weak, you'll be fine.  The 4070 200w TDP is well within what a 2x 8pin adapter can provide (technically, that's 375w, which is actually beyond even the PCIe 3.0 specification, FWIW).  If I'm following what you said, your PSU has three 6+2 connectors, and the 4070 adapter only requires two, so there are more than enough connectors.

The GPU itself won't even know the difference, with the adapter.  As a formally trained electronics tech with 40+ years experience, I'm not personally a fan of adapters TBH...but (as much as it kills my soul to say this lol) they exist for a reason.

HTH - good luck

Thanks for the input. I've left PC upgrades for a while now mostly due to the mad prices. Unfortunately what I'm finding is lots needs doing at once. 

In the end it's looking like 12 VHPWR is the future and ultimately that'll be what everything will require. My PSU is 10 years old now. I last had it tested in 2020 and it was still going really well but if I'm getting a new card, it's probably a good time to replace that PSU. Thinking I'll go with a corsair ATX 3.0 supply. Me being me, even tho I'm going with a 4070 I'm going to get an 850 watt PSU since it's on sale and the 750 isn't so they work out about the same price.

What started as me just upgrading a GPU has now morphed into a new case, a new GPU and a new power supply. It's frustratingly expensive but that's the hobby. The 2060 is really showing it's age and my i7 9700k won't be good for a whole lot longer so I may as well enjoy that processor with a decent GPU while I can.

[kksnowbear]

Realistically speaking, high-quality power supplies can last well beyond 10 years.  In fact, it's not uncommon these days to see new units with 10-year warranties from the manufacturer.  That's not to say they absolutely cannot fail in less than 10 years (any more so than any other warranty, mind)...but it should show that at least the manufacturers have that level of confidence in their designs.

I have at least one or two that are in that age range (of ~30 or so total in my shop), and still in service as 'bench testers' that I have absolute confidence in.  I have an old Corsair TX750 that's gotta be going on 15 years now, maybe more, and it's a workhorse, routinely handling even multi-GPU loads I throw at it sometimes.

If yours is holding up well, you could reasonably forestall the PSU expense for at least a year (or even several).  As I described above, it's far more than enough for a 4070 (again, assuming it's a decent quality unit).

Of course, it would mean that at some point you'd have to tear the whole thing down to replace the PSU...well, potentially, anyhow.

It's at least worth considering, IMHO

Incidentally, even though an 850 may seem overkill, I don't think it's a bad choice at all, should you decide to go that way.  Having some 'head room' in a PSU is not a bad idea, and it's not unusual to 'over spec' to about twice what the total wattage of your system is (not at all necessary, but not a bad idea either).  The idea is that switch-mode power supplies (like our PCs use) are most efficient at around 50% load.  So, if you buy one that's rated to output twice what your system requires in watts, you'd be roughly running it at around 50%, at least the majority of the time while actually gaming.

That said, your system with a 4070 would probably require around 500W.  (That's an educated estimate, neither a specific quote nor total wild-a$$ guess).  And it's not going to actually use that 500W most of the time.  So if you have a high-quality PSU that's rated 850W, then you could reasonably expect it would be loaded in the range of 50% (~425w) most of the time.

Also, it does leave considerable room for upgrades down the line.  An 850 is more than most manufacturers recommend for systems using GPUs on the order of high-end 40-series cards (NOT counting the obscene requirements of the 4090s).  Plus, we all know eventually there will be a 50-series, and the power requirements for the 4090s has been a sore spot for a lot of people...you could speculate that the high end 50-series might address the 'run-away' in terms of power required.  (Anyone remember the 900 series Nvidia GPUs, in the wake of the 700s?)

Best of luck to you.

[Shibbyland]

I think I’ve been quite lucky with my supply. It’s a cooler master bronze 750w.

I’ve ended up going with a Corsair RM850x.

The guy at the store was pretty adamant the Corsair brand isn’t very good anymore, poor quality build. He tried to sell me on an EVGA 850watt which I understand is a very good supply but it’s the old 8 pin connections.

I only ever buy Nvidia and it’s looking like 16 pin is where things are headed. I really don’t like the idea of being stuck with adapters so figured I’d bite the bullet and get an ATX 3.0 supply.

To be fair tho any power supply I buy is likely to be a big upgrade on what I had in there. Man it’s been pricey tho. 

[Beirut]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:12 AM, Shibbyland said:

About to buy an RTX 4070 card.

id like to get the MSI X trio but I note it’s a 16 pin connection. MSI supply a 2x 8 pin adapter for older power supplies (which is me). 
 

Does anybody know if this compromises the performance at all? 
 

im running an RTX 2060 at the moment with a 6+2 pin and a 6 pin connection. 
 

My power supply only has three 6+2 connections.

 

I just switched from an EVGA 2060 Super to a 4070. The MSI 4070 Ventus takes just one 8-pin connection. Not sure about the Gaming Trio, I think that's a slightly better card than mine, but the Ventus installed super easy and is performing nicely. 

 

It was a very noticeable upgrade. 

[Shibbyland]

I’m looking forward to trying it out tomorrow. It’s been over 3 years since a new GPU. 
 

Frustratingly, I can never afford to do a whole build at the same time so I get a new GPU but the processor is ageing (in this case I’ve got a 9700k). The next year I’ll replace the CPU and then I maybe get a year of having a decent combination of CPU and GPU before they fall out of sync again.

 

My RAM is getting old too. I’ve got 32Gb worth but it’s in four 8gb sticks. 
 

Fingers crossed when I have time tomorrow I can fly low level over Paris without dropping to 35fps as I have been. 
 

It’s silly really, nothing else I play pushes my Pc, DCS is always the reason I upgrade. 

[Shibbyland]

Reporting back for anybody interested.

I run mostly high settings but I keep some stuff like grass loading radius down and I only run at 1080p.

The increase in performance from the 4070 is incredible.

I've gone from getting a stuttering 35 frames low level over Paris to generally being above 100 frames with some reductions to 90.

High level over Syria and Normandy I'm getting 180 frames. Marianas is still pretty intense though, that drops to 60 frames low level but it's smooth. 

Where I'm still confused is my CPU spiking to 100% then dropping to 70% then spiking to 100% again and repeating that cycle. Definitely CPU limited now tho, that'll be next years job.

[Beirut]

Which model did you get?