Training Case 1 recovery problems

[Tweety777]

21 hours ago, SCPGrinder66 said:

Before you even get serious about carrier landings, I would just take the aircraft up to 1000 ft + and practice flying around in the landing config... staying on speed with gear down, full flaps, dlc engaged, full speedbrake. Once trimmed for on speed, you should be able to keep her within the e-bracket using throttle alone. Once you get on speed, she will basically fly herself with you manipulating the throttle only. You can even bump the throttle a bit higher and adjust trim (if necessary) to keep the aircraft from descending - fly around like that just practicing controlling it and feel what minute changes to throttle and forward and aft stick pressure make as well as pushing DLC forward.....you should notice a major shift in descent rate and then back off DLC (or pull it all the way in) to retard that descent. Once you get that down, add in some turns where you initiate with the rudder, add in some stick pressure while giving it a bit of throttle ....the goal should be to keep the orange donut while you are doing all this. If you lose it,  learn what adjustments you need to make to get back on speed while in the turn and especially as you come out of the turn (as if you were turning onto final). When you master full control of the aircraft in this config, where you are making all these adjustments as second nature, then take it to a runway and do touch and go's until you can put it in the same spot (or close) every time. THEN go to the carrier!

Good luck - like anything else: perfect practice makes perfect.  If you've even been near a Navy base, you'll see that when sections come in to land they almost never full-stop first approach. They usually do 2-5 touch and go's every time. Even the pro's have to continually practice - it's a perishable skill. 

 

I tried this at the end of my mission this evening with the HOTAS inputs on screen (ctrl enter). Apparently there is quite a lot of trim nose up needed to get the plane on speed, but when I got it right it was so easy to keep it (is that the correct way to refer to a plane? I know ships are referred to as She) on speed and I was able to keep a close eye on the vertical speed meter. 

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

is that the correct way to refer to a plane? I know ships are referred to as She

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/46807/what-is-the-gender-of-an-aircraft

[Tweety777]

So she it is then, though it appears to be correct as well. Thanks for the information.

[bonesvf103]

Depends on the language because alot of languages use genders in their nouns (English is not one of them).  For instance, in Polish, a boat is feminine gender, so a boat is referred to as while in Russian it is masculine.  So a boat in Russian would be referred to as "he" while in Polish as "she."

v6,

boNes

[SCPGrinder66]

16 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

I tried this at the end of my mission this evening with the HOTAS inputs on screen (ctrl enter). Apparently there is quite a lot of trim nose up needed to get the plane on speed, but when I got it right it was so easy to keep it (is that the correct way to refer to a plane? I know ships are referred to as She) on speed and I was able to keep a close eye on the vertical speed meter. 

Yes, at 15 units AoA there is a lot of nose-up trim...totally normal.  One of many reasons for coming into the break with wings swept in manual (which requires a lot of nose-up trim) is that as you roll out on downwind you are already pretty close to your on-speed trim. You still have to add some as the aircraft slows and the flaps come down, DLC gets engaged, etc. But with practice, you'll get a feel for how much and it should become second-nature. Downwind, you are on-speed descending to 600 with the throttle. By the time you are abeam the LSO platform you should have that 'easy to keep it' feeling you mentioned above. As you make your turn, your focus then should be on angle of bank and descent rate so you arrive at the 90 in good shape - around 450 ft. Then you are looking left for the ship and the wake and you are going to continue the turn while descending and aim to tuck the wake under your left armpit. Sounds weird but it works - and ideally your RAD ALT (set at 375-ish) should be going off as you cross the wake. Overshoot the wake just a little bit and keep the turn in while aligning with the center-stripe and roll out at about 320-350. You should be very close to 3/4 of a mile, still on-speed....and from here your visual scan starts 1. meatball - 2. line-up - 3. AoA.  The velocity vector should be near the front of the ship and a little right. You'd rather be high - looking like you are going long - rather than too low because you can punch the DLC a couple times to get back down on flight path much quicker than trying to spool up the engines.  The throttles should be be moving all the time as well as the stick as you are making all these adjustments. Don't dive for the deck, use DLC and throttles to keep your AoA while descending. Just keep doing all that until you hit the deck - if you keep the AoA you have a much better chance of catching a wire.   

[Tweety777]

4 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

Depends on the language because alot of languages use genders in their nouns (English is not one of them).  For instance, in Polish, a boat is feminine gender, so a boat is referred to as while in Russian it is masculine.  So a boat in Russian would be referred to as "he" while in Polish as "she."

v6,

boNes

That is interesting, though I do know with my shipbuilding background that in English a ship most definitely is female, though I believe there are about 1 or 2 official exceptions to that rule.

3 hours ago, SCPGrinder66 said:

Yes, at 15 units AoA there is a lot of nose-up trim...totally normal.  One of many reasons for coming into the break with wings swept in manual (which requires a lot of nose-up trim) is that as you roll out on downwind you are already pretty close to your on-speed trim. You still have to add some as the aircraft slows and the flaps come down, DLC gets engaged, etc. But with practice, you'll get a feel for how much and it should become second-nature. Downwind, you are on-speed descending to 600 with the throttle. By the time you are abeam the LSO platform you should have that 'easy to keep it' feeling you mentioned above. As you make your turn, your focus then should be on angle of bank and descent rate so you arrive at the 90 in good shape - around 450 ft. Then you are looking left for the ship and the wake and you are going to continue the turn while descending and aim to tuck the wake under your left armpit. Sounds weird but it works - and ideally your RAD ALT (set at 375-ish) should be going off as you cross the wake. Overshoot the wake just a little bit and keep the turn in while aligning with the center-stripe and roll out at about 320-350. You should be very close to 3/4 of a mile, still on-speed....and from here your visual scan starts 1. meatball - 2. line-up - 3. AoA.  The velocity vector should be near the front of the ship and a little right. You'd rather be high - looking like you are going long - rather than too low because you can punch the DLC a couple times to get back down on flight path much quicker than trying to spool up the engines.  The throttles should be be moving all the time as well as the stick as you are making all these adjustments. Don't dive for the deck, use DLC and throttles to keep your AoA while descending. Just keep doing all that until you hit the deck - if you keep the AoA you have a much better chance of catching a wire.   

Thanks for the great explination, this way things start to make more sense, especially the sweeping the wings part. 

[bonesvf103]

Yeah in English (My native language) a boat is a "she."  Just customary as nouns are genderless.

Going back to the trap---I wouldn't say use your throttles to keep AoA.  Throttles are for position on the glideslope and altitude. Trim keeps you on AOA and if not, slight push or pull on the stick based on the AOA indexer will do it.  Red up arrow means you're fast so pull back a bit until the donut appears to slow down and get back on AOA.  Green down arrow means you're slow, push on the stick a bit to get back on the donut AOA and to speed up (although I fins just letting go of the stick momentarily corrects for it too).

Oh and the other reason why you enter the break with wings back is because it looks friggin COOL!

Trim trim trim!

 

v6,

boNes

[Despayre]

23 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

...<snip>

Oh and the other reason why you enter the break with wings back is because it looks friggin COOL!

Trim trim trim!

Yup, and that's all you had to say!

[Tweety777]

It certainly looks cool! I tried again with the new VKB Gladiator with F14 grip. It works great, though I need to learn to fly with it a bit better, though it certainly feels a hole lot better. Like a night and day difference.

[Tweety777]

Yesterday I managed a 3-wire! I actually somehow felt so sure about my landing I hardlynull throttled up upon hitting the deck.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Tweety777 said:

Yesterday I managed a 3-wire! I actually somehow felt so sure about my landing I hardlynull throttled up upon hitting the deck.

Congratulations!

Another thing to remember is to switch off antiskid/spoiler brakes before trapping ( https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#fuel-management-panel )

The MIL power on touchdown is important both for making proper tension on the wire and then to let it pull you back a bit when you release the throttles and it also turns off DLC and retracts the speedbrakes in case of a bolter.

[Tweety777]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Congratulations!

Another thing to remember is to switch off antiskid/spoiler brakes before trapping ( https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#fuel-management-panel )

The MIL power on touchdown is important both for making proper tension on the wire and then to let it pull you back a bit when you release the throttles and it also turns off DLC and retracts the speedbrakes in case of a bolter.

Thank you! 

 

In this training Antiskid is already turned off I believe. At least the Antiskid is not mentioned in the tutorial.

 

The bit about turning off the DLC is good to know, is this at MIL power or also upon powering up substancially? This might problems I've had with the DLC after having failed at an attempt.

[draconus]

16 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

In this training Antiskid is already turned off I believe.

The screenshot tells otherwise.

16 minutes ago, Tweety777 said:

The bit about turning off the DLC is good to know, is this at MIL power or also upon powering up substancially?

It happens at MIL, look at the throttle ranges and actions here:

https://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#throttle-quadrant

[Tweety777]

That is good to know, then I'll check the Antiskid myself.