AG Radar Returns Missing for some Units

[BigBorner]

Hello!

I dont even know if its the right place to file the Bug Report, as i dont know if Deka or ED is in charge of radar things. However; 

Some Units are invisible on AG Radar. Specifically: Everything of Category "Missiles" (SCUD Launcher, Silkworm Launcher + Radar) and insurgent pickups with Dshk and Kord Armament (HMMWVEASRIJHADSJ Jeeps do give a Radar return, so i guess the pickups should, too). Maybe there are more ground units with this issue, but i am not really willing to test all of them. 

Edit: 

On GMTI Scuds can be detected if moving. 

Test setup:

current OB, MT, SP

Placed Units in a reference frame of Units that do give a radar return ( Hangar static object + T80 MBT) on a lofi area in caucasus to avoid interference from terrain, map objects etc.

Tried to get Radar returns between 30 and roughly 10 nm, tried to keep radar at optimal angle, used DBS2 highest zoom (10nm indicated).

Tracks attached per faulty unit. also the miz. 

 

AG-R Test.miz Technical - No Radar Return2.trk Silkworm - No Radar Return.trk Scud - No Radar Return2.trk

Edited August 10, 2023 by BigBorner

[BigBorner]

An Updated test. 

So far "stealth" seems to be: 

Smerch

All "Missile" Class

All Technicals

M-60

Outpost

Watchtower

Some unarmed trucks (Whilst others are not)

Attached are screenshots and a reworked sensor testing .miz that i used. idk if new tracks are necessary. 

agtest.pdf Sensor Test.miz

[Wyvern]

This sounds like an ED issue, can you go and try it with another plane? If you get the same issue with an F-15E/F-16C/F-18 its an ED issue

[BigBorner]

Yes, meanwhile I can do that with the Eagle. 

[Wyvern]

Alright, is noted, will be checked

[BigBorner]

I've checked with the eagle - and re-checked with the Jeff.

Results were .. mixed and weird sometime.  

It seems its also dependent on which map you use. I really need to dive deeper into it. I am currently shifting my test setups to PG and continue to check there. First results there were far off what i got in caucasus. 

Its complicated, it seems. 

[uboats]

cannot reproduce it on internal build by @JG54_NF2

let's see in next update

Edited September 24, 2023 by uboats

[BigBorner]

I have retested a little bit. (Current Open Beta, Singleplayer,  Multicore)

 

I get no returns from:

BTR80

BTR82A

Scud

Ive attached tracks for all of those and one as comparison with Fuchs as targets. They do give returns. 

I did the same Tests using the Strike Eagle, and got Returns from all of those Units. 

Scud as example:

 

I only get a return from the Tank i placed on the right side as control

thats how it looks in the eagle

 

(Yeah, i like staring at pixels)

Thats how radar returns can look like if they are there on the jeff. Here the Fuchs.

 

BTR82A_JF_NoReturn.trk BTR80_JF_NoReturn.trk Fuchs_JF_Return.trk Scud_JF_NoReturn.trk

Edited December 3, 2023 by BigBorner

[Napillo]

Which map did you use? You said it was different depending on the map?

[BigBorner]

This was on Persian gulf if I remember correct. 
 

Yeah maybe. But - that be positive and negative testing on several maps, with at least 2 airframes on… idk how many ground units exist. 100 maybe?

so, 3 maps x 2 modules x 90 units = 540 test cases minimum. 
 

 

I think I did plenty enough work I would usually get paid for for free to show that there is something afoot that needs work by professionals. Those are aware now. 

[uboats]

@JG54_NF2

[JG54_NF2]

42分钟前，uboats说：

@JG54_NF2

 

[JG54_NF2]

2023/12/4 AM12点26分，BigBorner说：

I have retested a little bit. (Current Open Beta, Singleplayer,  Multicore)

 

I get no returns from:

BTR80

BTR82A

Scud

Ive attached tracks for all of those and one as comparison with Fuchs as targets. They do give returns. 

I did the same Tests using the Strike Eagle, and got Returns from all of those Units. 

Scud as example:

 

I only get a return from the Tank i placed on the right side as control

thats how it looks in the eagle

 

(Yeah, i like staring at pixels)

Thats how radar returns can look like if they are there on the jeff. Here the Fuchs.

 

BTR82A_JF_NoReturn.trk 2.18MB · 1次下载 BTR80_JF_NoReturn.trk 3MB · 1次下载 Fuchs_JF_Return.trk 1.71MB · 1次下载 Scud_JF_NoReturn.trk 3.24MB · 1次下载

 

I have tried to reproduce this issue initially, but currently it is still normal on the Persian Gulf map. I plan to try again. Is there any further information that can help me? Direction, distance? Or are there any other possible factors? I am currently limited in downloading and will only be able to view your TRK in a few days.

[BigBorner]

Hm, I was a bit more far away then you initially but went pretty close.
But i used a better angle (~45 degrees) to the target. You can see it a bit in my Screenshots. 
 

There is another bug report somewhere that shows differences between maps, on some maps Airfields are mostly invisible on radar. Maybe it has something to do with that. Ima post the link if I find it again. 
Edit: 

 

I really don’t know anymore how to design my test to catch all those variables. 
 

And now I remembered that I recently had issues with the eagle and scuds, too. But on a MP server. I knew exactly where the scuds where through Terrain correlation between F10 map and Radar map but I could not see them. 
 

But I think we can all agree that something is broken and it’s not just user error  

 

@JG54_NF2

You used PG? Which airfield is that? Ima recreate your test there and see what happens. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by BigBorner

[JG54_NF2]

2023/12/13 PM6点25分，BigBorner说：

Hm, I was a bit more far away then you initially but went pretty close.
But i used a better angle (~45 degrees) to the target. You can see it a bit in my Screenshots. 
 

There is another bug report somewhere that shows differences between maps, on some maps Airfields are mostly invisible on radar. Maybe it has something to do with that. Ima post the link if I find it again. 
Edit: 

 

I really don’t know anymore how to design my test to catch all those variables. 
 

And now I remembered that I recently had issues with the eagle and scuds, too. But on a MP server. I knew exactly where the scuds where through Terrain correlation between F10 map and Radar map but I could not see them. 
 

But I think we can all agree that something is broken and it’s not just user error  

 

@JG54_NF2

You used PG? Which airfield is that? Ima recreate your test there and see what happens. 

 

Yes, Map PG, is al-Minhad AFB. I can see that these targets do differ in echo intensity, but I can indeed distinguish them here.

can you give me your MIZ files?

I need try to make it look exactly the same as your environment.

 

[BigBorner]

Am 17.12.2023 um 16:32 schrieb JG54_NF2:

Yes, Map PG, is al-Minhad AFB. I can see that these targets do differ in echo intensity, but I can indeed distinguish them here.

can you give me your MIZ files?

I need try to make it look exactly the same as your environment.

 

I’m going to upload the miz later today. You can also extract the EXACT miz I used from the trackfiles I posted. Just unzip them. 
 

I will recreate your and mine test once todays OB update dropped. 

 

I decided that i wont waste any time on testing the Jeff anymore until the community gets an update on how dekas strategy looks to keep it compatible with EDs changes. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by BigBorner