A plea for variety!

[Gorn557]

Hello everyone:

Just a thought on Apache missions and campaigns. There are so many wonderful user-created ones, but (anecdotally) 95% of the missions out there that I see always seem to be some variant of "fight insurgents with technicals in the desert or in a camp or town in Syria."

So this is my little plea for creativity/variety in Apache missions. While the Apache has certainly been used in this way almsot exclusively for two decades- can't deny that- remember its original mission was to stop the advancing Soviet army rolling thousands of tanks through the Fulda gap.

Where are my peer-on-peer conflicts? The desperate attempt to stop a brigade of T-72s before they can smash through the undermanned and unprepared NATO defenses on the first night of the invasion of West Germany (yes, I know we don't have a Fulda map, it would have to be a stand in). Combating the Iraqi army's hundreds of tanks on the road to Kuwait on the first night of the first Gulf War? Mounting a desperate struggle in the Pacific flying under IADS and trying to hit the landing craft as a peer adversary attempts to invade US territory with modern naval and air support? (And yes, I know there are a few like this, I'm not saying there are zero). Heck, even a conversion of the old Jane's Longbow campaigns. 

And yes, I'm going to try to put my money where my mouth is and make a few missions to this effect myself (though they'll be my first real foray into mission-making so they won't be any good), but I just wanted to put this thought out there in the community. The Apache was designed for a much different and higher intensity battlefield than most of the places it actually has operated in recent yyears-we should use DCS to stretch our creative muscles and explore some of those situations!

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Gorn557

[Floyd1212]

You might take a look at the RotorOps mission generation tool. You can pack the zones with as much armor as you can stand, and there is even a “Defend” mode where an enemy column of armor is advancing on you, and you have to annihilate it before it overruns your defenses.

Other options are the Foothold and Pretense missions. These can be difficult if you are playing them SP, as there are enemy AI CAP flights that are looking for targets to shoot down. Foothold might be a better starting point between those two.

None of the above are fully “scripted” missions with “characters” talking to you over the radio, or with surprise events happening off triggers, but if it’s armor you want to shoot at, check them out. 

[NeedzWD40]

That's pretty much the bread and butter of most online missions, though not helicopter specific. The closest I have is more designed for cooperative play, though it can be completed with a single ship and good planning.

partyinten_ob28v0.miz

[Gorn557]

30 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

You might take a look at the RotorOps mission generation tool. You can pack the zones with as much armor as you can stand, and there is even a “Defend” mode where an enemy column of armor is advancing on you, and you have to annihilate it before it overruns your defenses.

Other options are the Foothold and Pretense missions. These can be difficult if you are playing them SP, as there are enemy AI CAP flights that are looking for targets to shoot down. Foothold might be a better starting point between those two.

None of the above are fully “scripted” missions with “characters” talking to you over the radio, or with surprise events happening off triggers, but if it’s armor you want to shoot at, check them out. 

Yeah, those tools exist and are fantastic- RotorOps, Briefing Room, Liberation. But still, it'll never quite reproduce a hand-crafted scripted mission. They have different strengths. And in any case, people are always going to be making scripted missions- I'm just suggesting creators push the envelope for variety and creativity. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Gorn557

[shagrat]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Gorn557:

Hello everyone:

Just a thought on Apache missions and campaigns. There are so many wonderful user-created ones, but (anecdotally) 95% of the missions out there that I see always seem to be some variant of "fight insurgents with technicals in the desert or in a camp or town in Syria."

So this is my little plea for creativity/variety in Apache missions. While the Apache has certainly been used in this way almsot exclusively for two decades- can't deny that- remember its original mission was to stop the advancing Soviet army rolling thousands of tanks through the Fulda gap.

Where are my peer-on-peer conflicts? The desperate attempt to stop a brigade of T-72s before they can smash through the undermanned and unprepared NATO defenses on the first night of the invasion of West Germany (yes, I know we don't have a Fulda map, it would have to be a stand in). Combating the Iraqi army's hundreds of tanks on the road to Kuwait on the first night of the first Gulf War? Mounting a desperate struggle in the Pacific flying under IADS and trying to hit the landing craft as a peer adversary attempts to invade US territory with modern naval and air support? (And yes, I know there are a few like this, I'm not saying there are zero). Heck, even a conversion of the old Jane's Longbow campaigns. 

And yes, I'm going to try to put my money where my mouth is and make a few missions to this effect myself (though they'll be my first real foray into mission-making so they won't be any good), but I just wanted to put this thought out there in the community. The Apache was designed for a much different and higher intensity battlefield than most of the places it actually has operated in recent yyears-we should use DCS to stretch our creative muscles and explore some of those situations!

 

 

Just go for it! Learn the mission editor, some Lua Scripting and build a full fledged "Fulda Gap" campaign.

Or use the generator in DCS to create a classic red vs blue scenario, with the templates (unfortunately only fully supported on the Caucasus map).

[Gorn557]

8 hours ago, shagrat said:

Just go for it! Learn the mission editor, some Lua Scripting and build a full fledged "Fulda Gap" campaign.

Or use the generator in DCS to create a classic red vs blue scenario, with the templates (unfortunately only fully supported on the Caucasus map).

Like I said, I am going to out my money where my mouth is and try it myself. Though I'm going to start small, maybe one mission first

[shagrat]

vor 37 Minuten schrieb Gorn557:

Like I said, I am going to out my money where my mouth is and try it myself. Though I'm going to start small, maybe one mission first

It is totally worth it. Btw. to easily populate a 80ies/90ies war scenario, there is the "Generator" in the Mission Editor. There is the Option to select a "Node" and drag it around, select templates to suite your scenario (there is a separate template editor in the Generator Menu, if you want to fine tune forces). In the "Node" menu, select any of the Red Templates and Blue Templates you like (rectangles show force organisation and placement, these can be dragged to match your desired "front layout".

Finally hit "Generate" and add Client/Player slots as required...

Not a full immersive story campaign, but a quick way to setup larger engagements.

Btw. you can of course add your own templates etc.

[Gorn557]

1 minute ago, shagrat said:

It is totally worth it. Btw. to easily populate a 80ies/90ies war scenario, there is the "Generator" in the Mission Editor. There is the Option to select a "Node" and drag it around, select templates to suite your scenario (there is a separate template editor in the Generator Menu, if you want to fine tune forces). In the "Node" menu, select any of the Red Templates and Blue Templates you like (rectangles show force organisation and placement, these can be dragged to match your desired "front layout".

Finally hit "Generate" and add Client/Player slots as required...

Not a full immersive story campaign, but a quick way to setup larger engagements.

Btw. you can of course add your own templates etc.

Thanks! That is helpful to give me a quick start.

[GregP]

I too really like the idea of a more Cold War-esque setting for the Apache. Did you make any progress exploring the mission editor?

[JetCat]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:44 PM, Gorn557 said:

Where are my peer-on-peer conflicts? The desperate attempt to stop a brigade of T-72s before they can smash through the undermanned and unprepared NATO defenses on the first night of the invasion of West Germany (yes, I know we don't have a Fulda map, it would have to be a stand in). Combating the Iraqi army's hundreds of tanks on the road to Kuwait on the first night of the first Gulf War?

I tried to create a mission of a horde of zombies trying to storm Nevada - Area 51. Until I found out there are no zombie and no alien 3D models to implement into the map so I gave up making missions. Too bad I learned the full mission editor to do this before finding out crucial essential 3D models are missing. But I especially miss time traveling WW1 combat zeppelins, perfect moving targets for the Hellfires!

No this is not a joke, I really tried this. Casual war is just too casual for a cat like me, cats likes to hunt... a big variety of targets.

[JetCat]

Or why not create a mission with a few awesome ships or a submarine creeping nearer to the coast, the crew are all dead because it´s computer mainframe was taken over by a rogue AI? The possibilities for interesting missions are limitless here we see a screenshot from today´s submarine hunt.

I have also seen a video of the DCS aircraft carrier with super high quality 3D model skeletons in Skyrim-skeleton-model-quality as ground crew. Which brings me to another interesting mission idea: Imagine creating an enemy ghost ship aircraft carrier with skeletons on deck - this can only be the USS Kitty Hawk coming back from the International Shipbreaking drydock where she was defiled, and now she is seeking revenge for her demolition.

Hm well an aircraft carrier is probably a bit much for one Apache.... but there are other ships, and maybe some day a modder will make a good quality Cthulhu 3D model emerging from the ocean.

Fast escaping gun boats racing out into the open ocean are also an interesting idea for a great hunting mission (sorry I have no X-files story available for fast gunboats. Gunboats are just too grounded for a deep and inspiring background story).

The possibilities for interesting missions are endless. Especially when it comes to these skeletons, because somehow implementing these awesome skeleton 3D model in the mission editor also makes time-travelling nazi zombie tank platoons hiding somewhere on the Normandy map possible. What modder has made these awesome skeletons in DCS, they are from some Halloween-special DCS aircraft carrier start YouTube video. They are an absolute must-have for the mission editor.

My favorite is still the storm on Area 51, but I am too lazy to place 1000 enemy troopers with their corresponding waypoints by hand on the Nevada map... But maybe some day someone with too much time will do this mission.