Mk-20 and CCIP

[Captain Orso]

I can select mode CCIP, and it appears on my program, but in the HUD it always displays AUTO and only the fall line displays. The CCIP line-cross NEVER appears. I can find nothing to get rid of AUTO.

What did I do wrong, and what do I have to do to correct it?

[mwd2]

Is your waypoint marked as target?

[Tholozor]

If a TGT designation is present, release cues will always be AUTO, this is intentional. Undesignate TGT to revert to CCIP symbology.

[Captain Orso]

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Many thanks for the answers, guys, even if they almost caused me an aneurism.

I'm not targeting a waypoint. I am setting a target point with the TGP as a reference for where the target is: HMD points to it, HUD points to it, HSI shows it.

It seems insane to me to force a specific type of attack, because I have designated a target. That you cannot execute an AUTO attack without a designated target point is logical. That you have to use AUTO because you have one, where AUTO has the poorest results for free-fall, unguided weapons just make no sense to me.

Thanks again, guys.

[Hazardpro]

On 8/27/2023 at 1:25 PM, Captain Orso said:

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Many thanks for the answers, guys, even if they almost caused me an aneurism.

I'm not targeting a waypoint. I am setting a target point with the TGP as a reference for where the target is: HMD points to it, HUD points to it, HSI shows it.

It seems insane to me to force a specific type of attack, because I have designated a target. That you cannot execute an AUTO attack without a designated target point is logical. That you have to use AUTO because you have one, where AUTO has the poorest results for free-fall, unguided weapons just make no sense to me.

Thanks again, guys.

The only real difference under the hood between CCIP and AUTO is CCIP relies on the pilot's input to release at the right moment whereas AUTO allows computer control which is always going to be more precise. I don't think there's an issue IRL with dropping bombs accurately in AUTO, it's either a DCSism or you are not doing something correctly.

[Captain Orso]

IIRC to use AUTO mode you can have a maximum of 30° angle off of the horizon. CCIP allows you an accuracy that AUTO cannot achieve, and flexibility.

IIRC AUTO was invented for use with retarded* weapons, and situation in which circumstances negated flying in at higher altitudes. Because NOBODY is actually aiming the bomb release, only INS--or GPS in modern aircraft--is actuating the release when each microsecond can mean several feet of deviation even if INS were absolutely perfectly aligned, which it never is to that degree.

I really only use the Target Point to ease finding the target again after turning around. Then I can pick one or more points to aim for, for the actual drop(s). Not being able to have the TP on the ground is just an PITA, and IMHO for nothing.

 

* Sorry, learning impaired 

[Hazardpro]

2 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

IIRC to use AUTO mode you can have a maximum of 30° angle off of the horizon. CCIP allows you an accuracy that AUTO cannot achieve, and flexibility.

IIRC AUTO was invented for use with retarded* weapons, and situation in which circumstances negated flying in at higher altitudes. Because NOBODY is actually aiming the bomb release, only INS--or GPS in modern aircraft--is actuating the release when each microsecond can mean several feet of deviation even if INS were absolutely perfectly aligned, which it never is to that degree.

I really only use the Target Point to ease finding the target again after turning around. Then I can pick one or more points to aim for, for the actual drop(s). Not being able to have the TP on the ground is just an PITA, and IMHO for nothing.

 

* Sorry, learning impaired 

Again, the ballistic calculations under the hood are the same for both, the difference is in CCIP the jet has no idea where the target is and has to rely on the pilot to manually input when release is desired. If the jet knows where the target is in advance it can compute the desired release point automatically, hence "AUTO" mode. You're right that nobody is manually aiming the bomb release, they are using AUTO mode. Per the hornet SMEs that have talked about it publically, they only train for AUTO.

[Captain Orso]

The aircraft does have an idea of where it and the target are; it's called INS. The problem is, the methods of keeping track of them are Imperfect, and over time deviation increases, because even the very best gyroscopes, including laser-gyroscopes, have deviations, which increase over time and motion.

The largest difference between CCIP and AUTO release has to do with physics - it's in the trajectory.

The most ideal delivery method would be to hover directly above the target and release the weapon. Why? Because there would be no influence of forward or lateral momentum (baring wind) on the trajectory. if the bomb is built to have absolute symmetrical aerodynamics, it will fall absolutely straight down. One would have to implement a lateral force to change its trajectory.

The greater the parabolic arch in a trajectory, the greater chance in misaim, because the same degree of change in the "sight" causes an ever increasing change in the trajectory at increasing parabolic curves. Without going into lobbing bombs, which basically doubles the parabolic curves, the worst case scenario for aiming a dropped weapon is therefore dropping it from level flight; in other words AUTO release.

Anyway, the solution I figured out is to set the target on the ground. When I get turned around and have localized the target location optically, I can then undesignate the target and the mode immediately jumps to CCIP. So best of both worlds.