cannot reproduce Possible bug with Mk 82 Snakeye delivery in CCIP? (consistently hitting long)

[Istari6]

Several friends and I ran a DCS Liberation mission tonight in our F-16s.  We're still learning the Viper, but we have moderate experience using Mk 82 Snakeyes in the AV-8B and F-14A.    

To our surprise, all of our Snakeyes were dropping long in this mission.  It really messed up our attacks, and I promised to look into it.  I reflew a test mission I have and CCIP Snakeyes seemed to work fine in low-level level deliveries.  Then I refired up our Liberation mission and just ran passes at Carpiquet airfield to show the problem.

Please see the attached TacView track.  I'm crossing the runway from alternating directions and hitting pickle with the "death dot" on the runway.  Every time (5 in this track) the Snakeye falls long and impacts well beyond the target.  This is exactly the behavior we were seeing in the mission as well.

Is this a bug?  Is there something else happening with wind, FCR, etc that can be addressed by pilots to restore accuracy?

Thanks for any guidance. 

 

Tacview-20231018-213456_BuggedSnakeyes.zip.acmi

[Istari6]

BTW - I've retested this under 2.9, and the issue is still present.

Also reconfirmed that the M82S are set to NSTL, so it's not an issue of accidentally setting to NOSE only, which would fail to retard the bombs.  

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Istari6

[Moonshine]

tested it, seems fine to me, see tracks attached.
make sure you are not too low so the fins can actually open and slow the bomb down before it hits the ground
and dont be too fast either otherwise the fins cant decelerate the bomb enough
and surely dont be both

Post-Designate-CCIP_MK82SE.trk Post-Designate-CCIP_MK82SE_3.trk Post-Designate-CCIP_MK82SE_2.trk

Edited October 19, 2023 by Moonshine

[Lord Vader]

Hi @Istari6

As much as we like Tacview as a blackbox tool, it doesn't offer the proper replay analysis of what you are doing in the cockpit. This is critical to our analysis.
If you feel this is a bug, we need your track replay in DCS.

I was able to test the MK82 and MK84 with drag kits and was successful hitting targets. So we need to understand what you are trying to do.

Thank for understanding. 

 

[Istari6]

Thanks to you both for trying to duplicate on your side.  I didn't realize that you needed the Track Replay in DCS instead of TrackView.  

Moonshine - I've reflown and confirmed that fins are opening, and I'm dropping in the high 300s for speed, my understanding is the Snakeye is good to 450 KIAS in real life.  

Lord Vader - here's a Track I just created, reflying the start of the mission to show the problem.  I'm pickling in CCIP when the "death dot" is on the runway from about 250 AGL, every time the Snakeye sails long and hits well beyond the runway.  This is true approaching from both directions, so I don't think it's the wind, and doesn't the computer on the F-16 compensate for wind at this low an altitude?  

 

F16SnakeyeLongDropsCCIP102023.trk

One additional note that might help.  We're flying a "Final Countdown" campaign in Liberation to learn the F-16 in a 1944 WWII environment first, before tackling modern settings.  It's been fun to use Normandy to really learn the F-16 from the ground up, and we're trying to simulate mid-1980s F-16Cs in this campaign.  Since we're in 1944 and we only have mid-1980s Vipers, we turn off GPS, DL, MIDS and rely upon INS Fix updates for accuracy.  Don't know if that could be contributing to the Snakeye performance here?  

[Moonshine]

the CCIP pipper is correcting for wind, you can notice it most when you add lots of crosswind. your pipper will be very far off the center of your HUD 

[Istari6]

OK thanks Moonshine.  I've seen that with higher level CCIP bombing in the past, but that also clarifies it shouldn't be wind causing these significant "overshoots" when I pickle.  All the more puzzling.  

[Istari6]

All - bumping back up for visibility in the Bug queue.  I've attached a Track file (as requested) on Friday.  Hope this demonstrates the problem sufficiently to help investigate (or let me know what we're doing wrong in setting up the F-16).  Thanks!