New AI models???

[RichCotte]

Does anyone know if livery templates are being released for the new AI models of the B-52, B-1, and S-3?

[Backy 51]

Since the EDM shapes appear to be encrypted, getting a default Description.lua will be difficult if not impossible using ModelViewer 2.  Why on earth did ED decide to encrypt AI EDM files?

[Megalax]

 

[Stackup]

I doubt we get official livery templates since we didn't for other new models like the C-47.  Pretty sure most of the AI don't have official templates anyways.  I'd just like to know where the default skin textures are so I can slap some paint over the top for starters since all the great S-3 skins I have downloaded now only work on the Tanker variant beacuse they didn't change that model yet.

[roobarbjapan]

4 hours ago, Stackup said:

I doubt we get official livery templates since we didn't for other new models like the C-47.  Pretty sure most of the AI don't have official templates anyways.  I'd just like to know where the default skin textures are so I can slap some paint over the top for starters since all the great S-3 skins I have downloaded now only work on the Tanker variant beacuse they didn't change that model yet.

They are in a folder called HeavyMetalCore. But they seem rather low res and also the layout for the S-3 seems like a pain to work with. 

[Stackup]

9 hours ago, roobarbjapan said:

They are in a folder called HeavyMetalCore. But they seem rather low res and also the layout for the S-3 seems like a pain to work with. 

Nice find, thanks!  Didn't think they would be in the coremods folder. And all the other new models are there too.  It does look like a pain to work with although at least we shouldn't have to do anything but the external areas unless you want to do pilots too.  The new tanks and refueling pod textures seem to be in that folder as well despite not being in the game yet.

[Stackup]

I'll just add this here in hopes putting it more places gets us somewhere in the template(or some other solution) department. 

The files found are not the files used by the model in game.  They are a lower resolution quality and editing them does not change what shows up in game (I've tried).  The model .edm files also are apparently locked so you cannot open these in ModelViewer and therefore cannot even get a starting point for a description.lua as we don't know the file callouts for the different sections.  

This really sucks as ED isn't likely to give us more than the default skin they already did and I was looking forward to making some S-3 skins as well as seeing what more experienced livery makers could put out.  Hopefully ED hears us on this because they've put out templates for high quality AI only models like the B-17 already so I see no reason for them to prevent us from making custom liveries for these new ones which is exactly what they have done by locking up these files.  I hope this is just an oversight and that we'll get a solution sooner rather than later. Especially with the Tanker variant coming soon as I know there are campaigns that use custom liveries for the S-3 and I'd hate to see the ability to recreate those cool skins be completely eliminated for the new model.

Here's some examples of what we're losing, since they can still be used on the old tanker model.  (Obviously the new model itself is miles better, but since we can't skin it or change the bort numbers like the old one ...)  I made none of these, props to the creators and hopefully they can make them again for the new model whenever this gets fixed.

[RichCotte]

13 minutes ago, Stackup said:

I'll just add this here in hopes putting it more places gets us somewhere in the template(or some other solution) department. 

The files found are not the files used by the model in game.  They are a lower resolution quality and editing them does not change what shows up in game (I've tried).  The model .edm files also are apparently locked so you cannot open these in ModelViewer and therefore cannot even get a starting point for a description.lua as we don't know the file callouts for the different sections.  

This really sucks as ED isn't likely to give us more than the default skin they already did and I was looking forward to making some S-3 skins as well as seeing what more experienced livery makers could put out.  Hopefully ED hears us on this because they've put out templates for high quality AI only models like the B-17 already so I see no reason for them to prevent us from making custom liveries for these new ones which is exactly what they have done by locking up these files.  I hope this is just an oversight and that we'll get a solution sooner rather than later. Especially with the Tanker variant coming soon as I know there are campaigns that use custom liveries for the S-3 and I'd hate to see the ability to recreate those cool skins be completely eliminated for the new model.

Here's some examples of what we're losing, since they can still be used on the old tanker model.  (Obviously the new model itself is miles better, but since we can't skin it or change the bort numbers like the old one ...)  I made none of these, props to the creators and hopefully they can make them again for the new model whenever this gets fixed.

Well, since you mentioned the B-17G...Maybe they have plans to hold livery competitions similar to what they did with the B-17.

[Stackup]

4 minutes ago, RichCotte said:

Well, since you mentioned the B-17G...Maybe they have plans to hold livery competitions similar to what they did with the B-17.

Ideally they would give us a template even wothout holding a competition, but you might be right they've been doing a fair amount of those recently.

[roobarbjapan]

Somebody on discord got skins working for the B-52 so it should be possible for the S-3 too as long as it has the correct description file. The quality issue persists however. Some are saying it’s to do with LODs. Hopefully the new assets are just a trial run and the full version will come when the S-3 tanker comes. 

[Stackup]

9 hours ago, roobarbjapan said:

Somebody on discord got skins working for the B-52 so it should be possible for the S-3 too as long as it has the correct description file. The quality issue persists however. Some are saying it’s to do with LODs. Hopefully the new assets are just a trial run and the full version will come when the S-3 tanker comes. 

Yes of course skin making is possible if you have a proper description.lua, the problem is getting one.  Cool that one guy figured the B-52 out, would be nice if he shared it here too. 

If I understand LODs correctly, that doesn't account for the missing windows on the B-1B that are present in the promotional materiel.  Maybe it does for the polygon count, but missing details that could be painted on at minimum not being present would not be affected by this.  Same with the lack of Sniper pods for both the B-1 and B-52 which were both shown carrying them in the promotions.

It would be nice if they went back to the models they showed us when the S-3 tanker gets released.

[roobarbjapan]

Well I tried with the description file, I can get the names to appear in game but that actual skin doesn’t. While I was messing around I noticed the B-52 has bort numbers so I’m hoping this really is just a very early beta of the S-3. ED would be mad to make it impossible to skin. 

[Stackup]

That's the same thing it did for all the old skins, and the new one I attempted to make.  The livery name line and country assignments are the same across all skins so it sees those but ignores the bad callouts and just uses the default livery because you didn't change anything it was looking for.

All it would take is for the ED artist that made the skins to release a default descrition.lua for all the models.  That way they don't have to unencrypt the model if they really don't want to and we can still make skins.  Releasing a high quality template would be much better but people made higher quality skins for the previous old AI models, I see no reason they can't up the quality themselves for these except for the fact that they shouldn't have to.

[Megalax]

15 hours ago, RichCotte said:

Well, since you mentioned the B-17G...Maybe they have plans to hold livery competitions similar to what they did with the B-17.

The B-17 competition came about because the AWG approached the CM's because there wasn't a hole lot of B-17 skins that shipped with the core game.

[RichCotte]

6 hours ago, Megalax said:

The B-17 competition came about because the AWG approached the CM's because there wasn't a hole lot of B-17 skins that shipped with the core game.

Well, here's hoping we get something similar for the new models....

[Megalax]

6 hours ago, Urbi said:

your statement is not true. 

You must love being wrong all the time.

[Megalax]

So you're saying that because there were already skins in the user files, in other words that didn't come with the core game, that there was no need for a competition, and that my statement "because there wasn't a hole lot of B-17 skins that shipped with the core game" is incorrect?

 

[Art-J]

I'm not a native English speaker, but even for me It's very clear that "shipped with the core game" meant literally just that - stock skins in WWII Asset pack. And If I recall correctly, there were (still are in stable 2.8) only two or so stock skins available for B-17. Sure, users were creating their own skins after 2017, but it's irrelevant in this context.

[Stackup]

Pretty sure there was only 1 stock B-17 skin before the competition, that being the bare metal, yellow tailed D-Day Doll.

It would be really nice to have more than one skin for the new AI in the core game and assuming it takes a livery competition to do it then I see no problem with that.

However, that shouldn't prevent us from being able to make our own custom liveries that could be used privately or put up on user files for everyone to use.  Whether it's a full template or just a basic description.lua, ED needs to do something to restore this basic functionality to the new AI models.

[Stackup]

Well, I haven't been able to guess the lua for the S-3 yet, but I started work on bringing the default skin more into line with how VS-32 Vikings were painted, starting with the tail markings.  The majority of lo-vis VS-32 images place the squadron on the USS America and it appears the squadron was part of CVW-1 (AB) for most, if not all, of their time in the S-3.

Also wondering why the new Aero-1D fuel tank models were held back since they aren't exclusive to the tanker variant.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Stackup
updated screenshots

[seb37]

I wanted to create a skin on the new s-3b model with the following lua :

============================

livery = {
    {"low_S3BViking_FusFront", 0 ,"low_S3BViking_FusFront_VS_33",false};
    {"low_S3BViking_Fus_Back", 0 ,"low_S3BViking_Fus_Back_VS_33",false};
        {"low_S3BViking_Fin", 0 ,"low_S3BViking_Fin_VS_33",false};
        {"low_S3BViking_Stabs", 0 ,"low_S3BViking_Stabs_VS_33",false};
}
name = "VS-33 Screwbirds"
countries = {
    "USA",
}

============================
but it doesn't work ... does anyone have a solution?

Stackup how did you modify the tail of your vs-32 in lua?

 

[Stackup]

11 hours ago, seb37 said:

Stackup how did you modify the tail of your vs-32 in lua?

Well you see, the thing is I didn't.  I simply overwrote the fin and stabs texture files in the S-3's heavymetalcore texture zip file.

I tried the same lua structure you did because I saw that's what had worked for the B-52.  When that didn't work, I tried multiple variations such as "S3BViking_FusFront", "low_S-3B_Viking_FusFront", etc. and none of the ones I tried worked.  I only decided to work on it because I didn't like how the default paint wrote VS-32 on the side and then failed in the tail art department.  So I fixed the rudder to my liking and decided to add the proper CVW-1 tail code to it despite not having either the USS America or the USS Enterprise aircraft carriers in the game and I left the carrier name off.  

If somebody figures out the lua, I will be refining the skin a bit more and maybe doing the VS-32 CAG bird from 2007 as I like the blue and yellow scheme.  Until then there's really no point spending the time and effort to make multiple skins when I can only use one and the textures and model are at a lower quality than the ones shown off in all the trailers and newsletters.

So if you want to use your VS-33 skin in game, simply overwrite the necessary files in the texture zip and it should be visible as the default skin.  Keep in mind that the tanker variant uses the same files as the normal S-3 except it has a different RearFus file.  So if you don't alter the tanker's RearFus as well it won't look right.

[Citizen]

Absolutely gorgeous.

Texture replacement?

[seb37]

9 hours ago, Stackup said:

Well you see, the thing is I didn't.  I simply overwrote the fin and stabs texture files in the S-3's heavymetalcore texture zip file.

I tried the same lua structure you did because I saw that's what had worked for the B-52.  When that didn't work, I tried multiple variations such as "S3BViking_FusFront", "low_S-3B_Viking_FusFront", etc. and none of the ones I tried worked.  I only decided to work on it because I didn't like how the default paint wrote VS-32 on the side and then failed in the tail art department.  So I fixed the rudder to my liking and decided to add the proper CVW-1 tail code to it despite not having either the USS America or the USS Enterprise aircraft carriers in the game and I left the carrier name off.  

If somebody figures out the lua, I will be refining the skin a bit more and maybe doing the VS-32 CAG bird from 2007 as I like the blue and yellow scheme.  Until then there's really no point spending the time and effort to make multiple skins when I can only use one and the textures and model are at a lower quality than the ones shown off in all the trailers and newsletters.

So if you want to use your VS-33 skin in game, simply overwrite the necessary files in the texture zip and it should be visible as the default skin.  Keep in mind that the tanker variant uses the same files as the normal S-3 except it has a different RearFus file.  So if you don't alter the tanker's RearFus as well it won't look right.

hello Stackup, I think that the .lua (yours or mine) is good but there's a problem with ED because when you go to the mission editor for the b-52 or b-1b, for example, the drop-down list shows "USAF standard" as the default skin, but for the s-3b the drop-down list is empty!

[Stackup]

7 hours ago, seb37 said:

hello Stackup, I think that the .lua (yours or mine) is good but there's a problem with ED because when you go to the mission editor for the b-52 or b-1b, for example, the drop-down list shows "USAF standard" as the default skin, but for the s-3b the drop-down list is empty!

Interesting, my drop down list was never empty...  After a repair the default skin listing seems to have disappeared but the custom liveries still show up in the drop down list as options but of course the textures don't change.

The livery naming lua lines are the same for every single skin in the game and mine worked.  Just no altered textures without an overwrite.