Thinking of building a new rig. Need advice.

[frostycab]

My current rig just doesn't seem to be up to scratch for flying in VR, and continually crashes within 10 minutes of loading up now that 2.9 has dropped, so I'm considering spending a bit of cash and building myself a new rig that will keep me happy for the foreseeable future.

Current rig:

• MSI Z-390 Gaming Edge motherboard
• i9-9900KF @3.6GHz
• 32GB DDR4 3200
• ASUS ROG Strix RTX2070 Super
• Samsung 970 EVO NVME system drive
• Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVME storage/gaming drive
• Thermaltake Tough Power Grand 850W PSU
• Valve Index
• CoolerMaster 240mm AIO

I think I built this for around £1500 back in early 2019, and while it'[s served me well in most regards I've obviously never been able to match the performance in DCS that I see others flying with so I'd like to upgrade. The problem is that I genuinely have no real understanding of what is needed, nor how to pair components in such a way that they compliment each other and reduce bottlenecks. As such, I'm coming to you to see what input you can offer.

I've had a little look around at a couple of component websites and put together a starter list, so I'd be grateful if people could advise on where I've gone completely wrong, and where I should perhaps scale things up or down.

Planned rig:

• ASUS ROG Strix Z790-H Gaming motherboard
• i9-14900KF @3.2GHz
• 64GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR5 6000MHz
• RTX4080 (£1200-£1400) or RTX 4090 (£1700-£2000) but unsure which brand/skew to go for
• Cannibalise existing sytem for drives. (I have older spares to throw into it if I need to use it again)
• EVGA SuperNOVA 1600W PSU
• Need suggestion on fans and AIO. If I do splurge on this system I'll probably get a Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO XL case, so something to bear in mind. (I don't think my current case has enough room for a 40-series card.)

Is this overkill? Underkill? Can I save a bit or should I spend more? It looks like this will be in the region of £3300-£3500. Before you ask, I know nothing about overclocking, and to be honest I've always been scared to even try it, so everything will probably be left at stock speeds.

It's probably worht mentioning what else I play as that may have some bearing on things. A few FPS games, Elite Dangerous, Starfield, Cities: Skylines 2, MSFS, KSP2, and the odd bit or Project Cars or similar.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Edited November 6, 2023 by frostycab

[Mk1_Trebuchet]

Beast of a build sheet. Go big, or go home.  I love it.

Overclocking will not be required... for a little while at least. 

Cases are so much personal taste, but for my latest rig, I went with the Corsair 7000D.  It is a MONSTER of a case, but more than enough room for anything you want to put in it - And GREAT airflow.  But I reiterate... It. Is. HUGE.

I'm currently using an Artic Liquid Freezer II 420 and have no complaints.

For case fans, I've been using 'Be Quiet!' Silent Wings 4 (140mm) - Nice and quiet and good flow on low speeds.

 

[frostycab]

4 minutes ago, Mk1_Trebuchet said:

Beast of a build sheet. Go big, or go home.  I love it.

Overclocking will not be required... for a little while at least. 

Cases are so much personal taste, but for my latest rig, I went with the Corsair 7000D.  It is a MONSTER of a case, but more than enough room for anything you want to put in it - And GREAT airflow.  But I reiterate... It. Is. HUGE.

I'm currently using an Artic Liquid Freezer II 420 and have no complaints.

For case fans, I've been using 'Be Quiet!' Silent Wings 4 (140mm) - Nice and quiet and good flow on low speeds.

 

Thank you! Do you think I'm going overboard at all? Will all those parts pair well with each other? I've heard in the past that sometimes certain brands/skews work better with specific other components, while others struggle to leverage their full capabilities when paired with non-optimal partners. Whether this is a holdover form 20 years ago or not I don't know, but it's something I'm wary of.

Edited November 7, 2023 by frostycab

[Mk1_Trebuchet]

@frostycab Overkill? Maybe. It depends on how you look at it.  You're jumping 5 generations of CPU and a few generations of GPU. My (Gaming PC) philosophy has always been to go as top of the line as  I can, and ride it as long as is comfortable. (But that's just me)

Interoperability isn't really as much of a thing anymore. So long as the components are architecturally compatible (Check the Mfg specs) you should be fine.  The "Silicon lottery" is still a thing, but if you're not planning on deep tuning or overclocking, you'll probably never notice one way or another.

Clarification: The CPU/Memory/Motherboard Trinity is where you'll see compatibility constraints (Mfg specs) - GPU, Drives, etc are pretty much a non-factor these days.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Mk1_Trebuchet

[frostycab]

Good to know, thank you. Basically, apart from the fact that DCS won't even run on my system at the moment (God knows why!) I'm trying to get past my VR issues. While I used to consider it fairly wonderful, having now seen the type of performance and detail that others get on YouTube I'm jealous. Even though I used to be able to fly quite happily, and used to utterly destroy friends in warbird dogfights, I've always had loads of performance issues. When I check with the FPS VR app I'm getting constant orange and red graphs with non-stop reprojection, even on the lowest settings. I'm hoping to build something that will give me a nice green graph and make it possible to see ground targets better.

[BitMaster]

The build looks great..and I love excellent PSU's, Platinum or Titanium... but that 1600w looks almost overkill to me but let's do the math.

Say the GPU will go 400-600w in a realistic scenario and the CPU will take up 100-150w permanently in DCS, plus 100w everything else, fans, pump, LED, Board, Drives, RAM, USB peripherie ( Hotas ... ) etc.. that quickly adds up to 600~800watts. 

Aiming at 50% PSU load under full game load you end up looking for a 1200-1600w PSU. So yes, it fits the bill on the upper end, as desired. Headroom.

So, yeah, it's a big fat PSU, hopefully titanium efficiency for high efficiency under very low load too, under 10% is where you will mostly be while watching hours and hours of YT content and reading the web, daily stuff. 

Look for a tower with at least a 360 or 420 radiator option and bear in mind, a AIB 4090 card may block the front radiator, fans may clear it but if there is another inch or two for the rad can be tricky for some AIB 4090 SKU's and more than a few cases, not even talking having a front rad in there. Those 14th-gen need proper cooling, may own 5900x meanwhile sucks up around 90-100w in DCS, so I wonder what a 14900k will pull, that heat loads many 240 rads in no time and fans will need to spin like mad cause most AIO's have 2-3cm thick radiators only, that's next to nothing for100+watts permanent draw and wasn't designed with such CPU's in mind. The size of the 4090 somehow is important to match GPU + Case + AIO360-420.

I wouldn't go small, 240 or 280 AIO, rather the other direction and go DIY and include that 4090 in the loop, that makes the most sense since that card eats the wattage and pumps the heat into your case. If you consider the cost for a 360-420 AIO you can already go DIY without too much extra cost and stay flexible. Start with the CPU and may add the GPU months or years later, do external or internal rads or both etc etc.  many options   I have a DIY loop for many years myself and it's been the best investment in cooling and PC parts in general in years.

My external rad MoRa3 overall has more surface than most cases can have with all the rad options filled out, but mine is also 5cm/2inches thick and it has options for 4x200mm fans that are way way quieter than 9 x 140mm...and cost less too btw. Less hassle insider the case, easier tubing, external pump too...soo much less stress and better to service than any in-Case solution...and hey..it looks cool too   may wanna check   watercool.de website for their MoRa3 and waterblocks as well, you can buy that in the US too.

Edited November 7, 2023 by BitMaster

[frostycab]

3 hours ago, BitMaster said:

The build looks great..and I love excellent PSU's, Platinum or Titanium... but that 1600w looks almost overkill to me but let's do the math.

Say the GPU will go 400-600w in a realistic scenario and the CPU will take up 100-150w permanently in DCS, plus 100w everything else, fans, pump, LED, Board, Drives, RAM, USB peripherie ( Hotas ... ) etc.. that quickly adds up to 600~800watts. 

Aiming at 50% PSU load under full game load you end up looking for a 1200-1600w PSU. So yes, it fits the bill on the upper end, as desired. Headroom.

So, yeah, it's a big fat PSU, hopefully titanium efficiency for high efficiency under very low load too, under 10% is where you will mostly be while watching hours and hours of YT content and reading the web, daily stuff. 

Look for a tower with at least a 360 or 420 radiator option and bear in mind, a AIB 4090 card may block the front radiator, fans may clear it but if there is another inch or two for the rad can be tricky for some AIB 4090 SKU's and more than a few cases, not even talking having a front rad in there. Those 14th-gen need proper cooling, may own 5900x meanwhile sucks up around 90-100w in DCS, so I wonder what a 14900k will pull, that heat loads many 240 rads in no time and fans will need to spin like mad cause most AIO's have 2-3cm thick radiators only, that's next to nothing for100+watts permanent draw and wasn't designed with such CPU's in mind. The size of the 4090 somehow is important to match GPU + Case + AIO360-420.

I wouldn't go small, 240 or 280 AIO, rather the other direction and go DIY and include that 4090 in the loop, that makes the most sense since that card eats the wattage and pumps the heat into your case. If you consider the cost for a 360-420 AIO you can already go DIY without too much extra cost and stay flexible. Start with the CPU and may add the GPU months or years later, do external or internal rads or both etc etc.  many options   I have a DIY loop for many years myself and it's been the best investment in cooling and PC parts in general in years.

My external rad MoRa3 overall has more surface than most cases can have with all the rad options filled out, but mine is also 5cm/2inches thick and it has options for 4x200mm fans that are way way quieter than 9 x 140mm...and cost less too btw. Less hassle insider the case, easier tubing, external pump too...soo much less stress and better to service than any in-Case solution...and hey..it looks cool too   may wanna check   watercool.de website for their MoRa3 and waterblocks as well, you can buy that in the US too.

 

Thank you so much for the input!

I was wondering about the PSU, but I was erring on the side of caution, and as you rightly point out I can probably drop down to a 1200 without too much worry. With regards to the case, I'm definitely leaning towards the Lian Li O11D EVO XL. It's vast, and comes with the option of vertically mounting the GPU on the side, which would allow me to put extra fans right behind it to aid airflow. It'll comfortably take 420mm radiators on the top, bottom and side and/or up to 11 fans

I've had a bit of a rethink regarding the GPU itself too, partly due to pricing and partly due to availability and back-ordering. Having read quite a few reviews I'm now thinking of the ASUS RTX4090 TUF OC 24GB. The general concensus seems to be that it's one of the best cards in terms of cooling and runs quieter than most. Price is between £1800 on back-order and £1900 for immediate delivery.

So as things stand right now the revised parts list is:

• ASUS Z790 TUF Gaming WiFi motherboard
• i9-14900KF @3.2GHz
• 64GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR5 5200MHz
• ASUS RTX4090 TUF OC 24GB
• Corsair RM1200x PSU
• Lian Li Galahad II Trinity SL-INF AIO 360mm ARGB Water Cooler
• Lian Li UNI SL140 INF Addressable RGB Black 140mm Fans (Start with 4 and see how it copes?)

Im still hunting for deals, but so far I've managed to price it all up at £3600GBP. It's a daunting prospect if I'm honest, especially as I recently bought a home and it's costing a fortune to get it redecorated, but it's my birthday tomorrow and I feel like I need a treat. As I think I said, I can reuse a 2TB M.2 drive from my current PC, as well as the other SSDs and HDDs for general storage. If I leave the primary M.2 in it then I can still use it as a day-to-day web/email/photos system and just use the new one for gaming. I could even use the old rig for streaming or recording if I get so inclined, or just donate it to my brother like I did my old i7-6700K/GTX1070 setup.

My biggest concern is that I'm going to get something wrong and end up being disappointed with how it all performs, so I need some reassurance. LOL

Edited November 8, 2023 by frostycab

[LucShep]

That looks good (RTX4090 24GB yes, definitely!) but I'll leave my two cents...

EDIT: for the DDR5 memory, and for Intel 13th and 14th gen, go instead for a 64GB kit (2x 32GB) of 6400Mhz CL32 or 6800Mhz CL34, it's better and not overly expensive. 
For example:
6400 CL32:  https://www.gskill.com/product/165/377/1677726067/F5-6400J3239G32GX2-RS5K
6800 CL34:  https://www.gskill.com/product/165/377/1684291548/F5-6800J3445G32GX2-RS5K
(I like GSkill memory kits, but other brands like Corsair should also have it)

OK, so about the processor. I sincerely never understood why people go for the i9 instead of the i7.... bragging rights or a "need to have the bestest"?
It makes even less sense now with 14th gen, which is a very disapointing refresh of 13th gen (3% gains?!), itself a refresh of 12th gen.

The difference between i9 and i7 is imperceptible in gaming/simming (DCS included, I'm sure), both having the same 8 P-Cores - the stronger important ones for gaming.
The i9 14900K has 16 E-Cores, the i7 14700K has 12 E-Cores (these are the slower "Economy" ones, which matter very little for gaming).
The i9 14900K has a higher boost clock (a meager 100Mhz higher turbo-clock) than the i7 14700K, and a slight higher ammount of L2 (+4MB) and L3 (+3MB) Caches.
The thing is, for gaming/simming, you can't really notice the difference in practice, as hard as you may try.
More over, the i9 14900K runs so ridiculously hot and power hungry, that it now requires a good 420 AIO to run an intensive all-core workload (reported at ~370W?!?). That's silly.
The i7 14700K (and its 14700KF version) performs like an i9 13900K (Intel's best just weeks ago) and for a more affordable price - it just makes a lot more sense, IMO.

Honestly, I'd probably even get the previous i7 13700K / KF (if under £350) as it's basically the i7 14700K just with 8 E-Cores (insteaf of 12), pair it with a good mid-range Z790 motherboard (~£250), save a lot of money (and likely heat!) in the process, while not noticing any difference in performance. Even better with "Black Friday promos" soon.
Or instead, go the AMD AM5 platform route, with Ryzen 7800X3D processor, mid-range B650E/X670E motherboard, and a 64GB DDR5 6000 CL30 memory kit meant for it.

Edited November 12, 2023 by LucShep
added memory info

[frostycab]

12 minutes ago, LucShep said:

That looks good, but I'll leave my two cents...

I honestly never understood why people go for the i9 instead of the i7.... bragging rights or a "need to have the bestest"?
It makes even less sense with 14th gen, which are a disapointing refresh of 13th gen.

The difference between i9 and i7 is imperceptible in gaming/simming (DCS included, I'm sure), both having the same 8 P-cores - the stronger important ones for gaming.
The i9 14900K has 16 E-Cores, while the the i7 14700K has 12 E-Cores (the slower "Economy" ones, which matter very little for gaming).
The i9 14900K has a meager 100Mhz higher turbo-clock and 32MB of L2 Cache, while the i7 14700K has 28MB of L2 Cache. The thing is, you can't really notice the difference in practice, as hard as you may try.
More over, the i9 14900K runs so hot that it now requires a good 420 AIO to run an intensive all-core worload (reported at ~370W power consumption?!?). It's just ridiculous hot and power hungry.

Honestly, I'd just get an i7 13700K (£365) with a good mid-range Z790 motherboard (£200~£300, not a penny more) and save a lot of money (and possibly heat) in the process (in the bank, or for other goodies), while not really noticing any difference in performance. Even better with "Black Friday promos" happening soon (if not now).
Or instead, go the AMD AM5 plaftorm route, with Ryzen 7800X3D processor, X670E motherboard and 64GB DDR5 6000 CL30 memory.

 

Thank you for the info. I confess (perhaps it's fairly obvious!) that I don't really understand much at all about individual components, so it's interesting to hear your thoughts on the i9 vs the i7. I suppose that idiots like me just assume bigger numbers mean better performance. I just had a look and userbenchmark.com does indeed only report about a 5% improvement with the i9 against the i7, and it would save the better part of £200 on the build. The motherboard I selected comes in at £250, right in the middle of your suggested price range, so that seems to be something I got right.

To be honest I completely forgot that Black Friday is just around the corner, though in reality here in the UK the "deals" aren't ever really deals as prices tend to inflate a bit beforehand to make them look better when the sales hit, and with import duty it's not economical to order from the US or EU now. (Thanks, BREXIT!!! *bleurgh!*)

[LucShep]

Hey, no problem.
I just wanted to chime in as you mentioned some concerns of "overkill / underkill" (which is a factor), and too often one pays too much for no real benefit. 
BTW, I edited my previous post, left my opinion on the DDR5 memory too.
That'll be a kick arse system. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by LucShep

[frostycab]

15 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Hey, no problem.
I just wanted to chime in as you mentioned some concerns of "overkill / underkill" (which is a factor), and too often one pays too much for no benefit. 
BTW, I edited my previous post, left my opinion on the DDR5 memory too.
That'll be a quick arse system. 

 

Thanks. Yeah, I just saw your edit. The G-Skill is a bit cheaper at its base price, but only at Newegg, and the shipping and duty would actually make it quite expensive. Corsair do 6200 for £235, or 6400 for £242. (Add about £25 to either if I bother with the RGB versions.) 6800 would push the price to £310, and I'm guessing I probably woudn't really notice much improvement, especially if I never see a side-by-side comparison(?).

The big thing is that in years gone by I've always set a budget and ended up wishing I'd spent a bit more, so I'm looking into trying things the other way around this time.

It's gone 3am here now, so I'm off to bed, but I'll defo be checking in on this thread when I wake up, so forgive me if I don't reply to any more comments tonight.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by frostycab

[LucShep]

FWIW, the 7200 CL34 and 7600 CL38 kits are the most sought speed/latency for newest Intel "K" chips, but there are none with 64GB capacity that I know of.

Between 6400 CL32 and 6800 CL34 there is not a big difference (marginal in practice, I'd say) so you can go whichever kit of the two gets to be the cheapest.

Just avoid going any less than 6400 CL32 with newest Intel "K" chips - the faster DDR5 will make a more noticeable difference than the "i9 vs i7" ever would.

Edited November 8, 2023 by LucShep

[Tea-Pig]

I'm reading this thread with great interest because I'm in a similar situation. I have a Ryzen 7 5800/RTX3070 based system and it's not cutting it for me. I could upgrade it with perhaps a 4070TI or 4080 for £1000ish but somehow I think I'll always regret not going all in and getting complete new 4090 system.

For what it's worth Stormforce have some pre-built systems with very close specs to what is being proposed here. The three year warranty attracts me away from building a custom system. I'm feeling drawn to the Prism 6308 at £3300.

https://www.stormforcegaming.co.uk/product/prism-6308-rtx-4090-intel-i9-13900k-powered-by-asus/

[frostycab]

14 minutes ago, Tea-Pig said:

I'm reading this thread with great interest because I'm in a similar situation. I have a Ryzen 7 5800/RTX3070 based system and it's not cutting it for me. I could upgrade it with perhaps a 4070TI or 4080 for £1000ish but somehow I think I'll always regret not going all in and getting complete new 4090 system.

For what it's worth Stormforce have some pre-built systems with very close specs to what is being proposed here. The three year warranty attracts me away from building a custom system. I'm feeling drawn to the Prism 6308 at £3300.

https://www.stormforcegaming.co.uk/product/prism-6308-rtx-4090-intel-i9-13900k-powered-by-asus/

I won't lie, having a 3-year warranty is a nice bonus, but I think Youtube has left me a bit jaded when it comes to pre-built systems. Build quality isn't always up to scratch, and a warranty doesn't really make up for the hassle of going through the RMA process and making do without your precious gaming rig while they fix it. Also, a warranty is only ever any good if the company is around to honour it. They seem to have been trading for over 6 years, but it's not unheard of for companies to disappear almost overnight for one reason or another, and when it happens a warranty becomes pretty much worthless. It's unlikely, but it's one reason why I personally don't see a warranty as a big incentive to buy from system integrators on the whole.

I looked at the link you posted, and on the face of it the whole thing does seem pretty similar. There are a couple of small things I noticed in the listing that I don't like:

• They are glaringly non-specific about the GPU. All they say is "ASUS RTX4090." No mention of which specific card you will get. They don't even mention the GPU in the spec sheet. The pcpartpicker website lists a dozen ASUS 4090s, and that's probably not a comprehensive list, so if you're fussy then that rig could be a bit of a lottery, though it's a safe bet it'll have whatever they can get at the cheapest price at the time of building. I'm currently researching the subject of coil whine, which I only first heard about last night, and it could play a major part in choosing a specific card in my situation.
• Same applies to the RAM with 22 variations on the Vengeance 2x16GB theme at pcpartpicker. Probably not as crucial, but I'd still like to know before ordering.
• Ditto for the fans.
• Going by what others have said here, and having seen some videos looking at power draw from the i9-13900K I'd be asking around to see if the 1000W PSU has enough headroom when you really push the whole system.
• As anyone reading htis thread can see, I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to specs, but I just can't reconcile the info on the spec sheet with the motherboard info from ASUS. Maybe they've got some older variants in stock that they need to use up, but it just doesn't read the same way. USB ports seem different, as do the PCIe slots.
• The case is hideous, but that comes down to personal taste. LOL

On the plus side, they do seem to have good reviews on TrustPilot, and seem to actively engage with reviewers, though I don't know the outcomes.

I'd love to hear from the really experienced people here to see if any of my prejudices are justified or not.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Tea-Pig said:

I'm reading this thread with great interest because I'm in a similar situation. I have a Ryzen 7 5800/RTX3070 based system and it's not cutting it for me. I could upgrade it with perhaps a 4070TI or 4080 for £1000ish but somehow I think I'll always regret not going all in and getting complete new 4090 system.

In your case, and if you already have 64GB RAM, then I'd just drop a Ryzen 5800X3D (£290, it's a direct swap) and update BIOS of motherboard (if not done already, that is), then get the fastest badest GPU that you can manage to afford. That'd be still a darn good system for years to come.

Edited November 8, 2023 by LucShep

[LucShep]

41 minutes ago, frostycab said:

I won't lie, having a 3-year warranty is a nice bonus, but I think Youtube has left me a bit jaded when it comes to pre-built systems. Build quality isn't always up to scratch, and a warranty doesn't really make up for the hassle of going through the RMA process and making do without your precious gaming rig while they fix it. Also, a warranty is only ever any good if the company is around to honour it. They seem to have been trading for over 6 years, but it's not unheard of for companies to disappear almost overnight for one reason or another, and when it happens a warranty becomes pretty much worthless. It's unlikely, but it's one reason why I personally don't see a warranty as a big incentive to buy from system integrators on the whole.

I looked at the link you posted, and on the face of it the whole thing does seem pretty similar. There are a couple of small things I noticed in the listing that I don't like:

(...)
On the plus side, they do seem to have good reviews on TrustPilot, and seem to actively engage with reviewers, though I don't know the outcomes.

I'd love to hear from the really experienced people here to see if any of my prejudices are justified or not.

Well, pre-build systems have their use.
They're meant for people who don't know any better and/or don't have the time or patience to learn or do it, or want to rely on maintenance/warranty for it as a whole, passing responsability to others.
Therefore they end up paying more, and for things that are never the best balanced, because those systems are usually a conglomerate of parts that get to be the best deal (highest margin) for who's selling it while also providing a service to the customer.

It works, otherwise it woudn't be a business... but it'll never be as good as a system built with every single chosen part to work with others as a unit, on purpose, for the individual's specific needs and budget.
I prefer the idea of building the very best possible system within a set budget with selected parts, many years doing it for me and friends (and their friends). While it sucks to troubleshoot things (and handle an RMA) by yourself if something goes wrong, it's still worth it in my opinion. But that's me, not everybody likes that.
Still, I'd recommend getting your own system from the group up, with parts that you select, specifically, one by one. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by LucShep

[frostycab]

On the subject of the GPU, can anyone tell me what the current situation is with melting power plugs? Are there any adaptors/solutions that I should be ordering at the same time as the rest of the parts to minimise risk?

[frostycab]

OK, I think I've pretty much locked most of it down now:

• ASUS TUF Z790 Gaming PLUS WiFi motherboard
• i7-13700K @3.6GHz
• 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Black DDR5 6400 CAS32
• ASUS RTX4090 TUF OC 24GB
• Thermaltake ToughPower GF A3 1200W 80+GOLD
• Lian Li Galahad II Trinity SL-INF AIO 360mm ARGB Water Cooler
• 4x Lian Li UNI SL140 INF Addressable RGB Black 140mm Fans (Add more if they can't cope)
• Lian Li O11D EVO XL case

The only thing I'm still unsure about is whether to spend more on the PSU, but I'm hoping it'll be ok. Have I missed anything out? The only other thing I can think of is a tube of thermal paste.

Edited November 9, 2023 by frostycab

[Tea-Pig]

Ah, @frostycab, you say you're an idiot with specs but you're apparently still well above me. At my level of knowledge a 4090 is just a 4090. Maybe an Asus is a bit better than a Zotac but I wouldn't really know. I just thought I'd mention the Stormforce because it seems like pretty good value, but you clearly have some specific stuff in mind.

And thanks @LucShep for the suggestion to upgrade my existing. Maybe I'll go that way but a 4090, CPU and power supply puts me well on the way to the cost of a new setup.

 

[LucShep]

12 hours ago, frostycab said:

OK, I think I've pretty much locked most of it down now:

• ASUS TUF Z790 Gaming PLUS WiFi motherboard
• i7-13700K @3.6GHz
• 64GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Black DDR5 6400 CAS32
• ASUS RTX4090 TUF OC 24GB
• Thermaltake ToughPower GF A3 1200W 80+GOLD
• Lian Li Galahad II Trinity SL-INF AIO 360mm ARGB Water Cooler
• 4x Lian Li UNI SL140 INF Addressable RGB Black 140mm Fans (Add more if they can't cope)
• Lian Li O11D EVO XL case

The only thing I'm still unsure about is whether to spend more on the PSU, but I'm hoping it'll be ok. Have I missed anything out? The only other thing I can think of is a tube of thermal paste.

 

That looks good.
I'm not sure on some of those parts you list, but nothing against - it's for not knowing some of those products.
Some things I choose for personal preferences, so take the following with a large pinch of salt...
 

• Regarding the PSU: I don't know that specific one, other than from one review, but seems OK (and 10 years warranty!), though potentially noisy in operation.
  
  Personally, my current favorite "80+ Gold 1200W" ATX3.0 PSUs are the Bequiet! Pure Power 12M 1200W and the Corsair RM1200X SHIFT, each for different reasons.
   - The Bequiet Pure Power 12M 1200W is now my "go to"  for such systems (like yours) simply because I haven't found anything as good for the price (~£190 MSRP, but you may find it well below that). It's an example that you don't have to pay a fortune to have good quality (you may have noticed so many 1200W PSUs are way over £300,00!).
   - The Corsair RM1200X SHIFT is not exactly inexpensive (~£220,00) but the "shifted layout" for the connections (which are put out at the side, instead of the back) have sped up that part of the job for me so well, when building a system, that it surprised me. Very practical, also when it comes to add or remove PSU cables later (which is usually a PITA!). Really interesting novel aproach, though its validity will depend on choice of PC Case (with some it may not work well!). Good quality overall, IMO.
   
• Regarding the CPU cooler:  Similarly, I'm not accustomated with Lian Li AIOs, I confess to stick with "what works". I really like the Arctic Freezer II 360 (RGB or not).
  Outstanding performance, and excelent pricing. Some may say the tubing is kind of rigid, or that it lacks "bling", but then that's me. LOL
  I like the simplicity, which makes it also non-fussy to work on. And the overall high quality (and zero issues to this day on every single one I helped with) makes the AC Frezzer II AIOs the ones I always go for.
   
• Regarding the storage: I find the storage parts missing from your list, are you going to use an exhisting NVME?
  if you aren't, then treat yourself with a good 2TB one (or two, if budget allows), that system will appreciate it.
  
  You'll notice the raving about the Crucial T700, but you don't need PCIe Gen 5, at all. PCIe Gen 4 exceeds any heavy gaming demands, and is more affordable now too.
  Samsung 990 Pro (if with latest firmware in place!), Samsung 980 Pro, WD SN850X, Corsair MP600 Pro XT, these are all great NVMEs that are often recommended for the best reasons - high speed, very snappy and great reliabilty. From these mentioned, get the 2TB version you find at the cheapest price.
  And if you end up looking for a second NVME just to install games, the WD SN770 is an awesome "cheap" option. Yes, it's RAMless (so not the best choice if using as a single NVME) but it's faaaast and ideal for this purpose.

   

  EDIT:  Forgot this part you asked about...

  14 hours ago, frostycab said:

  On the subject of the GPU, can anyone tell me what the current situation is with melting power plugs? Are there any adaptors/solutions that I should be ordering at the same time as the rest of the parts to minimise risk?

  That's a bit of controversial subject, heh? The clip can make anyone nervous because you need to make sure it's really plugged all the way in. And yet, you'll find yourself every month carefully making sure it's still like that.   
  Maybe someone here using an RTX4090 can help you better....
  
  From personal experience, I find that if you mount the GPU vertically (with a vertical mount), the issue seems less of a concern (no issues with GPU cables against the side panel/window). But then that may not be a choice/preference (which is understandable).
  
  I haven't tried any yet, but there is very good feedback from people using CableMod angled adapters (v1.1 or newest), available at 180º or 90º (and up or down) angles.
  It works with the GPU plug-cable from the PSU:  https://store.cablemod.com/12vhpwr-angled-adapter/
  
  Here's a video explaining it with some good details:

   

Edited November 9, 2023 by LucShep
added more bits/opinions

[frostycab]

1 hour ago, Tea-Pig said:

Ah, @frostycab, you say you're an idiot with specs but you're apparently still well above me. At my level of knowledge a 4090 is just a 4090. Maybe an Asus is a bit better than a Zotac but I wouldn't really know. I just thought I'd mention the Stormforce because it seems like pretty good value, but you clearly have some specific stuff in mind.

And thanks @LucShep for the suggestion to upgrade my existing. Maybe I'll go that way but a 4090, CPU and power supply puts me well on the way to the cost of a new setup.

 

In all honesty I only know the little bit I do because I've spent a lot of time on Youtube watching J2C and GamersNexus. 99% of it goes over my head, but ever so often something sticks, even if it's just "DON'T BUY THIS!!!" LOL

[frostycab]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

That looks good.
I'm not sure on some of those parts you list, but nothing against - it's for not knowing some of those products.
Some things I choose for personal preferences, so take the following with a large pinch of salt...
 

• Regarding the PSU: I don't know that specific one, other than from one review, but seems OK (and 10 years warranty!), though potentially noisy in operation.
  
  Personally, my current favorite  "80+ Gold 1200W" ATX3.0 PSUs are the Bequiet! Pure Power 12M 1200W and the Corsair RM1200X SHIFT, each for different reasons.
   - The Bequiet Pure Power 12M 1200W is now my "go to"  for such systems (like yours) simply because I haven't found anything as good for the price (~£190 MSRP, but you may find it well below that). It's an example that you don't have to pay a fortune to have good quality (you may have noticed so many 1200W PSUs are way over £300,00!).
   - The Corsair RMX1200X SHIFT is not exactly inexpensive (~£220,00) but the "shifted layout" for the connections (which are put out at the side, instead of the back) have sped up that part of the job for me so well, when building a system, that it surprised me. Very practical, also when it comes to add or remove PSU cables later (it's usually a PITA!). Really interesting novel aproach, though its validity will depend on choice of PC Case (with some it may not work well!). Good quality overall, IMO.
   
• Regarding the CPU cooler:  Similarly, I'm not accustomated with Lian Li AIOs, I confess to stick with "what works". I really like the Arctic Freezer II 360 AIO (RGB or not). Outstanding performance, and excelent pricing. Some may say the tubing is kind of rigid, or that it lacks "bling", but then that's me. LOL
  I like the simplicity, which makes it also non-fussy to work on, and the overall high quality (zero issues to this day on every one I helped with) makes the AC Frezzer II AIOs the ones I always go for.
   
• Regarding the storage: I find the storage parts missing from your list, are you going to use an exhisting NVME?
  if you aren't, then treat yourself with a good 2TB one (or two, if budget allows), that system will appreciate it.
  
  You'll notice the raving about the Crucial T700, but you don't need PCIe Gen 5 at all. PCIe Gen 4 still exceeds any heavy gaming demands, and is more affordable now too.
  Samsung 990 Pro (if with latest firmware in place!), Samsung 980 Pro, WD SN850X, Corsair MP600 Pro XT, these are all great NVMEs that are often recommended for the best reasons - high speed, very snappy and great reliabilty. From these, get the one you find the cheapest.
  And if you end up looking for a second NVME just to install games, the WD SN770 is an awesome "cheap" option. Yes, it's RAMless (so not the best choice if using as a single NVME) but it's faaaast and ideal for this purpose.

   

  EDIT:  Forgot this part you asked about...

  That's a bit of controversial subject, heh? The clip can make anyone nervous because you really need to make sure it's plugged all the way in. And yet, you'll find yourself every month making sure it's still like that.   
  Maybe someone here using an RTX4090 can help you better....
  
  From personal experience, I find that if you mount the GPU vertically (with a vertical mount), the issue seems less of a concern (no issues with GPU cables against the side window). But then that may not be a choice/preference (which is understandable).
  
  I haven't tried any yet, but there is very good feedback from people using CableMod angled adapters (v1.1 or newest), available at 180º or 90º (and up or down) angles.
  It works with the GPU plug-cable from the PSU:  https://store.cablemod.com/12vhpwr-angled-adapter/
  
  Here's a video explaining it with some detail:

  
  hj

 

That one review you found for the PSU barely qualifies as a review, but I've heard good things about Thermaltake over the years. The cable placement isn't going to be an issue given the size of the case, and it's £70 cheaper, which I know sounds a bit silly given how much I'm spending, but it is what it is. I've also read good things about the Lian Li coolers and fans. The case fans apparently offer 5-10% improvement in airflow and static pressure over quite a few others as they're slightly deeper allowing for better blade angle. Time will tell!

As for storage, yes, I've got a 2Tb Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVME that I can pull from the old rig, along with 2 more SSDs and a plethora of HDDs. (I used to have an *awful* internet connection, so downloading 100GB+ games could take a week, meaning I got into the habit of just adding more space to store things as opposed to deleting and then redownloading later.)

Interestingly, just this evening I found an article from just 2 months ago citing the CableMod adaptors as being the point of failure in numerous instances. Worryingly, the article says that in one case MSI refused an RMA and told the user to direct their complaint to CableMod. Use of the CableMod adaptor also invalidate the warranty on the card too, it seems, so I think I'll just play it safe (if you can call it that) and stick with the 12VHPWR connector. The article went on to say "CableMod itself admits that the failure rate of the adapter is higher than the equivalent 12VHPWR cable and suggests that users switch to using a different solution if they want to avoid trouble."

Full article is here if it's of any interest to anyone.

Anyway, I'm going to speak to the places I'm ordering from tomorrow just to double check that there are no obvious conflict with the specific parts I've chosen, and also to check that the websites are right and everything is actually in stock (because I've been caught out before and ended up waiting weeks for "in stock" items!) and possibly put the orders in for delivery on Friday. I was planning to hold off until Black Friday just to see if by some miracle something nice might appear, but something is failing miserably on this system right now. I can't even watch Youtube without all sorts of flickering and dancing images, and it's randomly crashing Windows and restarting itself 10 times a day.

If anyone wants to weigh in with any final words of advice then you have about 12 hours to do so. In the meantime, thank you so much to everyone for all the great advice and taking the time to help. I wish every gaming community was so wonderful!

[LucShep]

 

23 hours ago, frostycab said:

That one review you found for the PSU barely qualifies as a review, but I've heard good things about Thermaltake over the years. The cable placement isn't going to be an issue given the size of the case, and it's £70 cheaper, which I know sounds a bit silly given how much I'm spending, but it is what it is. I've also read good things about the Lian Li coolers and fans. The case fans apparently offer 5-10% improvement in airflow and static pressure over quite a few others as they're slightly deeper allowing for better blade angle. Time will tell!

 

I find those 11 pages from a reputable source (HWbusters) covering all relevant aspects for a PSU test do qualify it as a review, sorry. 
I know JohnnyGuru is/was considered the go to for PSU reviews, but there are other veterans in the area as well...
 

23 hours ago, frostycab said:

Interestingly, just this evening I found an article from just 2 months ago citing the CableMod adaptors as being the point of failure in numerous instances. Worryingly, the article says that in one case MSI refused an RMA and told the user to direct their complaint to CableMod. Use of the CableMod adaptor also invalidate the warranty on the card too, it seems, so I think I'll just play it safe (if you can call it that) and stick with the 12VHPWR connector. The article went on to say "CableMod itself admits that the failure rate of the adapter is higher than the equivalent 12VHPWR cable and suggests that users switch to using a different solution if they want to avoid trouble."

Full article is here if it's of any interest to anyone.

 

Understood, I too wouldn't feel all that confident knowing what happened.
That said, it was with initial v1.0. The newer 1.1 versions seem fine (JayZTwoCents made a video about it), at least looking at their Reddit.
But, as said, I don't have any experience with it. 

I see people mentioning the Corsair GPU Power Bridge and the Thermal Grizzly WireView GPU as well, may be better alternatives.
Again, I have no experience with those.

Edited November 10, 2023 by LucShep
added link for video

[frostycab]

9 hours ago, LucShep said:

I find those 11 pages from a reputable source (HWbusters) covering all relevant aspects for a PSU test do qualify it as a review, sorry. 
I know JohnnyGuru is/was considered the go to for PSU reviews, but there are other veterans in the area as well...

Please forgive me! I obviously spent far too long staring at my screen yesterday and completely misread that page you linked to. I just skimmed through the body text on the first page and never even noticed that it actually linked to several more pages of info. LOL Having been through it now I might have a last look to see if I can find something a little bit better. I must confess that I thought all PSUs in a group (Gold, Platinum or Titanium) were much of a muchness, so I now see therre's still a little bit more to it.

Onnce again, thanks for all the valuable insights!

[CptBligh]

I would also be looking at AM5 at this point instead of buying into a dead end platform with Intel.  You may not ever need to upgrade the CPU again but at least the option would be there.