DIY F-16 ADI

[BaronVonVaderham]

Does anyone have plans/drawings/instructions for building an adi? I’ve seen plenty demos, but no one is sharing building information. I’m not sufficiently mechanically inclined to figure out the mechanical construction. Obviously they cannot turn infinitely around both axes. I cannot figure out the negatives of that soo I’m looking for examples/explanation on how to construct that.

[MAXsenna]

Does anyone have plans/drawings/instructions for building an adi? I’ve seen plenty demos, but no one is sharing building information. I’m not sufficiently mechanically inclined to figure out the mechanical construction. Obviously they cannot turn infinitely around both axes. I cannot figure out the negatives of that soo I’m looking for examples/explanation on how to construct that.

If you look at the HUD or the ADI in any module, you can easily see how it works when you go over the top. Just pull back/up, and when you pass 90 it turns itself around. Sort of hard to explain, while you will understand what I mean when you see it. Hard part will probably be to make it mechanically accurate with the coding.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[BaronVonVaderham]

6 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

If you look at the HUD or the ADI in any module, you can easily see how it works when you go over the top. Just pull back/up, and when you pass 90 it turns itself around. Sort of hard to explain, while you will understand what I mean when you see it. Hard part will probably be to make it mechanically accurate with the coding.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

I probably should be more precise. 
what I meant is how the mechanical instrument works, soo I can reproduce it with physical mechanical components and stepper motors. 
i know the theory behind ADIs and gyro instruments and I know how they are used, but I cannot figure out the mechanical implementation of the physical mechanical instruments. 
 

Helios is not an option. 

[MAXsenna]

I probably should be more precise. 
what I meant is how the mechanical instrument works, soo I can reproduce it with physical mechanical components and stepper motors. 
i know the theory behind ADIs and gyro instruments and I know how they are used, but I cannot figure out the mechanical implementation of the physical mechanical instruments. 
 
Helios is not an option. 

Check eBay. Maybe someone has a broken real one for sale.

I assume the motors just spin the gimbal around according to the logic. I have some old Lego somewhere, I had planned to try this sometime.

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[Deadman]

I know the book is sold out but Mike's site has valuable information 

https://www.mikesflightdeck.com/mfdb/bsai/bsai.html

[BaronVonVaderham]

2 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Check eBay. Maybe someone has a broken real one for sale.

Haha, I may have to! 

unfortunately it’s not possible for 2 gimbals to have unlimited 360 degree movement in both directions, as wires for internal motors will snap off after a few winds. I’m assuming there’s a way around this, either through the use of contacts that are mobile (like brushes or an electric motor), or through limits to the adi deflection (eg 180 degrees), for at least one axle. 

[MAXsenna]

Haha, I may have to! 

unfortunately it’s not possible for 2 gimbals to have unlimited 360 degree movement in both directions, as wires for internal motors will snap off after a few winds. I’m assuming there’s a way around this, either through the use of contacts that are mobile (like brushes or an electric motor), or through limits to the adi deflection (eg 180 degrees), for at least one axle. 

Brushes sounds right. How else do you get lights on rotor blades? Induction? Movement could be done by magnetic fields I guess.

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[Vinc_Vega]

Hi there,

at Amazon I've found that encapsulated rings, which give you endless rotation for 3, 4, 6, 8 or 12 wires.

Unfortunately I only have German links to the products.

https://www.amazon.de/Schleifring-Nimoa-Mini-Schleifring-Drähte-Windkraftanlagen/dp/B085Y8DJ8Y/ref=dp-upsell-widget_sccl_3_3/259-0666416-2118544?pd_rd_w=asCiD&content-id=amzn1.sym.da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_p=da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_r=Q6YAG0YGQEZVCBBGHY3Z&pd_rd_wg=SuMXR&pd_rd_r=95ad4794-e4f3-4d0a-935b-e6e0d24045d9&pd_rd_i=B085Y8DJ8Y&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BHYYCYTG/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0BHYYCYTG&pd_rd_w=T3zyd&content-id=amzn1.sym.ae2317a0-2175-4285-af64-66539858231f&pf_rd_p=ae2317a0-2175-4285-af64-66539858231f&pf_rd_r=ZQGTV517PZS091EWHASQ&pd_rd_wg=nd8Z4&pd_rd_r=3adc46e8-df96-4829-9032-5d94a2b16d7a&s=industrial&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

 

https://www.amazon.de/WayinTop-Schleifring-Schleifringe-Durchmesser-Robotik-Projekt/dp/B07GCNK2XY/ref=asc_df_B07GCNK2XY/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=380201824048&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-828409835708&psc=1&mcid=847c777d29813fff8e4d02eeca8b6fdc&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=74966709742&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=380201824048&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-828409835708

 

https://www.amazon.de/BQLZR-Durchmesser-Schaltungen-Schleifringe-Bohrungsgroesse/dp/B01CJJNJSE/ref=asc_df_B01CJJNJSE/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309900741810&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-697991016947&psc=1&mcid=2e3f85a44fab37aa8941be1856141296&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62379242115&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309900741810&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-697991016947

 

https://www.amazon.de/BQLZR-Draehte-Micro-Kollektor-Ring-Schleifring-Pruefgeraete/dp/B01CJJNOXO/ref=dp-upsell-widget_sccl_3_1/259-0666416-2118544?pd_rd_w=asCiD&content-id=amzn1.sym.da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_p=da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_r=Q6YAG0YGQEZVCBBGHY3Z&pd_rd_wg=SuMXR&pd_rd_r=95ad4794-e4f3-4d0a-935b-e6e0d24045d9&pd_rd_i=B01CJJNOXO&psc=1

 

Additionally, there are NEMA stepper motors at the market, that have hollow shafts to route some wires though it.

Regards, Vinc

Edited November 19, 2023 by Vinc_Vega

[No1sonuk]

The problem with slip rings is electrical noise disrupting USB signals as they rotate.
HOWEVER, there IS a possible solution...

Only send power through the slip rings, and put a WiFi ESP32 inside the gimbal

[BaronVonVaderham]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:55 PM, Vinc_Vega said:

Hi there,

at Amazon I've found that encapsulated rings, which give you endless rotation for 3, 4, 6, 8 or 12 wires.

Unfortunately I only have German links to the products.

https://www.amazon.de/Schleifring-Nimoa-Mini-Schleifring-Drähte-Windkraftanlagen/dp/B085Y8DJ8Y/ref=dp-upsell-widget_sccl_3_3/259-0666416-2118544?pd_rd_w=asCiD&content-id=amzn1.sym.da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_p=da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_r=Q6YAG0YGQEZVCBBGHY3Z&pd_rd_wg=SuMXR&pd_rd_r=95ad4794-e4f3-4d0a-935b-e6e0d24045d9&pd_rd_i=B085Y8DJ8Y&psc=1

 

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0BHYYCYTG/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0BHYYCYTG&pd_rd_w=T3zyd&content-id=amzn1.sym.ae2317a0-2175-4285-af64-66539858231f&pf_rd_p=ae2317a0-2175-4285-af64-66539858231f&pf_rd_r=ZQGTV517PZS091EWHASQ&pd_rd_wg=nd8Z4&pd_rd_r=3adc46e8-df96-4829-9032-5d94a2b16d7a&s=industrial&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

 

https://www.amazon.de/WayinTop-Schleifring-Schleifringe-Durchmesser-Robotik-Projekt/dp/B07GCNK2XY/ref=asc_df_B07GCNK2XY/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=380201824048&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-828409835708&psc=1&mcid=847c777d29813fff8e4d02eeca8b6fdc&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=74966709742&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=380201824048&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-828409835708

 

https://www.amazon.de/BQLZR-Durchmesser-Schaltungen-Schleifringe-Bohrungsgroesse/dp/B01CJJNJSE/ref=asc_df_B01CJJNJSE/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309900741810&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-697991016947&psc=1&mcid=2e3f85a44fab37aa8941be1856141296&th=1&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62379242115&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309900741810&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14830251268282557579&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9114984&hvtargid=pla-697991016947

 

https://www.amazon.de/BQLZR-Draehte-Micro-Kollektor-Ring-Schleifring-Pruefgeraete/dp/B01CJJNOXO/ref=dp-upsell-widget_sccl_3_1/259-0666416-2118544?pd_rd_w=asCiD&content-id=amzn1.sym.da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_p=da6a3555-3917-42ee-92a6-9f4fea00ae66&pf_rd_r=Q6YAG0YGQEZVCBBGHY3Z&pd_rd_wg=SuMXR&pd_rd_r=95ad4794-e4f3-4d0a-935b-e6e0d24045d9&pd_rd_i=B01CJJNOXO&psc=1

 

Additionally, there are NEMA stepper motors at the market, that have hollow shafts to route some wires though it.

Regards, Vinc

 

Thanks! This is very useful. Do you have to have a link to the hole shaft nemas? I haven’t been able to find them. 

On 11/21/2023 at 10:31 PM, No1sonuk said:

The problem with slip rings is electrical noise disrupting USB signals as they rotate.
HOWEVER, there IS a possible solution...

Only send power through the slip rings, and put a WiFi ESP32 inside the gimbal

That’s an interesting solution. I wonder how they have that with the real thing at the time. 

[Nikolas_A]

On 11/19/2023 at 1:36 PM, BaronVonVaderham said:

Does anyone have plans/drawings/instructions for building an adi? I’ve seen plenty demos, but no one is sharing building information. I’m not sufficiently mechanically inclined to figure out the mechanical construction. Obviously they cannot turn infinitely around both axes. I cannot figure out the negatives of that soo I’m looking for examples/explanation on how to construct that.

Yes, they can. Google slip rings.

Here's my prototype:

(it doesn't turn infinitely in this clip but it can. That's just a demo Arduino sketch, swinging both axes back and forth a certain amount) 

 

 

[Deadman]

Nicely done

 

[BaronVonVaderham]

6 hours ago, Nikolas_A said:

Yes, they can. Google slip rings.

Here's my prototype:

(it doesn't turn infinitely in this clip but it can. That's just a demo Arduino sketch, swinging both axes back and forth a certain amount) 

 

 

 

so I already found the answer. It’s slip rings, or hollow axle steppers. Using either allows you to spin the ball in both aircraft roll directions infinitely. 
I think you either use a slip ring or a hollow axle stepper in your setup.it’s a nice piece of work. I Look forward to seeing your progress

Edited November 25, 2023 by BaronVonVaderham

[Nikolas_A]

I used both, I forgot to mention hollow steppers!

[BaronVonVaderham]

Your solutions is really good. More elegant than the ones that use servos for pitch control. Which motors do you use? I was thinking of a nema11 for the pitch control, but not sure which nema stepper has a hollow axle. I’m assuming hollow axle steppers still need a pipe running through to protect the wiring from wearing.

[No1sonuk]

Hollow axle steppers are NOT the solution for continuous rotation. They will only be of any use until your wires get twisted so much they break...

[BaronVonVaderham]

They only twist because of friction inside the axle. So for that you can run a pipe within which the wires run. If the axle tube is wide enough you might even be able to use small bearings.

in any case, there are many ways dealing with this. Everyone their own design, right?

@Nikolas_A, I would love to see/hear how you handled the wires for the stepper inside the attitude ball.

Edited November 26, 2023 by BaronVonVaderham

[No1sonuk]

If the wires are fixed at the ends, like wires usually are, they WILL twist as the gimbal turns. If it turns one way more than the others, the wires can't untwist.

[Nikolas_A]

2 hours ago, No1sonuk said:

If the wires are fixed at the ends, like wires usually are, they WILL twist as the gimbal turns. If it turns one way more than the others, the wires can't untwist.

That's what the slip rings are for

[No1sonuk]

4 hours ago, Nikolas_A said:

That's what the slip rings are for

The inference with talking about hollow-axle steppers is to pass the wires without using slip rings.