aim120 vs. r77 and other rus missiles

[vienna1210]

hi all

 

maybe i recall a discussion, which was already was done, but i found something weird last

night online.

i was on =RAF= server and could only get 3 or 4 kills, the whole afternoon untill late night.

 

this would be no surprise, if you would judge me as rookie. but i am definetly not.

i was flying the f15 and the rate of 120 was terrible.

 

even there was a very strange thing.....

 

i was head on with a rus plane (dont know, maybe mig or su)

i was about 25.000 feet

he was definetly lower (about 5000 - 10000 feet) as me

i was full AB (ground speed indicated far above 700 knts)

he used ECM, me also

i tracked on TWS mode (dont know what he did)

i selected aim120 (he i think r77)

and guess what happend?......he got a lock solution way before i got a good lock (still was tracking ECM)

 

if somebody has an idea or can explain this, i would be happe, since this particular issue makes me very unsecure, about talking of even planes, weapons and systems in lockon.

 

thanks a lot, and see u in air!

vienna :helpsmilie:

[Boberro]

IIRC RAF uses an some scripts. Maybe this was script bug?

 

hi all

 

and guess what happend?......he got a lock solution way before i got a good lock (still was tracking ECM)

I don't get it. What do u mean? If u both used ECM so even weaker radar in LO can lock target far away than normal, so u could lock him and he you), but I don't think u meant this, so explain it :)

 

Also locking and tracking target which is higher than attacker is a better than if attacker is locking&tracking lower target.

Also as everybody knows AIM-120 are porked in LO.

[Frostie]

even there was a very strange thing.....

i was head on with a rus plane (dont know, maybe mig or su)

i was about 25.000 feet

he was definetly lower (about 5000 - 10000 feet) as me

i was full AB (ground speed indicated far above 700 knts)

he used ECM, me also

i tracked on TWS mode (dont know what he did)

i selected aim120 (he i think r77)

and guess what happend?......he got a lock solution way before i got a good lock (still was tracking ECM)

 

if somebody has an idea or can explain this, i would be happe, since this particular issue makes me very unsecure, about talking of even planes, weapons and systems in lockon.

 

thanks a lot, and see u in air!

vienna :helpsmilie:

Clearly he locked onto your jamming strobe just the same way that you could if you wished, except for the fact that you being in an F-15 will get a warning while he/she in a Rus a/c will probably not.:thumbup:

[vienna1210]

okay..but correct me if i am wrong...

 

...as far as i read the fact is:

 

1. F15 has one of the strongest ECCM (can crack ECM good, when it comes into distance)

2. High speed is advantage when release misslie (range increases with high speed)

3. alltitude increases also range of missile

 

so when head-to-head with opponent rus plane, both (me & him) has ECM on, me almost on top-speed, with altitude advantage, and then.....

 

my radar (which should be one of the strongest in game) still showed me no lock, that means i tracked these 6-bars signal, but the rus plane fired a missle against me.

 

so what was the result....?

i had to turn and chaff&flared, to avoid missile hit, and i had still no lock...that tells me, that

rus plane has not only the better missile, it looks like the radar breaks ECM far faster then F15.

and yes...it was that plane which shot me down at last, because other were too far away.

 

i dont want to whine about this now, i like that game, and i specially like to fly f15, but

i just want to get confirmed, that i fly in a weak plane.

if so, okay, but as you can image, its hard to accept, that i cant fly and fight :-)

i probably know the advantage of my plane (so whats left of these LOL ) so you can be sure, i approach within my optimum parameters, when i enter a fight.

(high speed, not too low, never go in turn fights, and if possible use TWS)

 

thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions, and yes, seems that the 120 (whats left then??) is also under.modelled in this game.

 

but as i said, i like that game and still will fly, but with the fact in my head, that this is not

even simulated...

 

c-u in air buddies :-)

vienna

[GGTharos]

...as far as i read the fact is:

 

1. F15 has one of the strongest ECCM (can crack ECM good, when it comes into distance)

 

... not in Lock On

 

2. High speed is advantage when release misslie (range increases with high speed)

 

Not in Lock On.

 

3. alltitude increases also range of missile

 

Not really in Lock On.

[X-man]

Not really in Lock On.

 

So how do you explain that I got a 40 mile kill with the AIM-120, while flying at 40k+, the other day on? (true story) :) Surly I couldn't have done that at 10'000ft...

Edited March 23, 2009 by X-man

[GGTharos]

I've gotten a 60nm one, back when the 120's were a little faster.

 

So how do you explain that I got a 40 mile kill with the AIM-120, while flying at 40k+, the other day on? (true story) :)

 

But, what I mean is ... the difference in a high-low and low-high shot isn't really there in terms of range in LO. The moment the missile dives into thicker air it slows down as if it suddenly jumped on the short bus. Conversely, shooting a missile UP will see it burn through its rocket to high speed on the way up, and pass into 'thinner air' thus reducing the deceleration.

 

Add to that the incredible look-down sensitivity to chaff, and the advantages of flying high diminish quickly - not that they aren't there, just not so much as they should be.

[vienna1210]

thanks a lot...

 

...guys.

 

u helped me out of my deep depression ... LOL

no just joking.

 

okay, so i will forget my references, i read at some places about missiles, and tactics, and

regard to LO specific physics and technics.

 

i can live with the knowledge of sitting in a undermodelled plane using crap (almost) missiles.

 

thanks again and c-u soon.....but hope not on my six :-)

 

regards

vienna

[Frostie]

so when head-to-head with opponent rus plane, both (me & him) has ECM on, me almost on top-speed, with altitude advantage, and then.....

 

my radar (which should be one of the strongest in game) still showed me no lock, that means i tracked these 6-bars signal, but the rus plane fired a missle against me.

I thought you said you were no rookie?

F-15 radar in LO is virtually identical in performance to the Flanker's and stronger than the MiG's.

You can fire at a jamming signal which is exactly what the Russian jet did to you. His will have shown no lock either just a lock on a jamming signal which he fired and got the better of you. Your advantage is you can fire on him without him knowing about it.

[Pilotasso]

I've gotten a 60nm one, back when the 120's were a little faster.

 

 

 

 

Darn...the longest I ever got was 35 miles... :D

[vienna1210]

I thought you said you were no rookie?

F-15 radar in LO is virtually identical in performance to the Flanker's and stronger than the MiG's.

You can fire at a jamming signal which is exactly what the Russian jet did to you. His will have shown no lock either just a lock on a jamming signal which he fired and got the better of you. Your advantage is you can fire on him without him knowing about it.

 

 

well, as i said, i know! that i can fire without a lock, in TWS mode, against ECM signlas.

but then i ask myself, what the definition of a mad-dog is?

is it maddoging when u fire without a lock? if so, then as far as i know its not allowed on RAF server.

because if not, i will just check the range, by set radar to 40 miles and then guessing when about 30-25 miles, and fire all my 120 on to the ECM signal. if this then is maddoging, please tell me...hope not.

 

thanks and regards

vienna

[104th_Crunch]

No it's not maddogging to fire on an ECM. It is a Home On Jam shot.