VR Advice Needed!

[AhSoul]

7 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Oh…if you switch between VD and Oculus Link, you must recheck in the Oculus software under options again, that it is set as your „OpenXR runtime“. You need to re-do this everytime after you used VD and intend to use Oculus Link instead (with an OXR application).

I haven't touched that (it has always showed "Oculus is not set as the default OpenXr runtime") and just now with Link Cable I did get the XR menu in game. The only difference was that I ran DCS by double clicking the exe in the bin-mt folder, rather than launching from a pinned icon on the Taskbar (which I created from the bin-mt folder), so bit weird.

Running ASW 45 over link cable I could turn off DLSS and turn on 4x MSAA, and the overlay was saying 75% CPU headroom and 0-10% GPU headroom. It looked pretty good!

So if I assume I'm going to have to used ASW 45 I guess I now need to tinker again with PD, which aliasing to use etc etc until I get some combination I'm happy with.

It looked pretty good in VD with ASW 45 too, though there I would get some rainbow artifacting.

[Phantom711]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb AhSoul:

So if I assume I'm going to have to used ASW 45 I guess I now need to tinker again with PD, which aliasing to use etc etc until I get some combination I'm happy with.

Try using DLAA instead of MSAA!

I have a different system and a Quest Pro not the Quest 3, but my approach is to achieve the 72 FPS most of the time and have ASW on „auto“ for those cases where I can‘t achieve that. Also note, that the term „ASW 45“ is misleading and derives from a 90Hz baseline. So it effectively means „half rate ASW“. So you will see 36 FPS when ASW kicks in (if you use the 72Hz mode).

[AhSoul]

Not getting the artifacting in VD now. In fact the image feels 'smoother' in VD than it does over link.....

7 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Try using DLAA instead of MSAA!

I have a different system and a Quest Pro not the Quest 3, but my approach is to achieve the 72 FPS most of the time and have ASW on „auto“ for those cases where I can‘t achieve that. Also note, that the term „ASW 45“ is misleading and derives from a 90Hz baseline. So it effectively means „half rate ASW“. So you will see 36 FPS when ASW kicks in (if you use the 72Hz mode).

I'm now using 90Hz mode, with ASW forced on to lock at 45. Seems to work well. I'll give DLAA a go and see if I can tell the difference. I might also try upping VD to Ultra (I'm on High atm).

Edited January 15, 2024 by AhSoul

[AhSoul]

So weirdly I get smoother video over VD wireless than I do over link cable. With the cable I get these pretty regular little spikes in the frame graph, and the image looks like it's 'shifting' or something. I don't get that at all with VD.

So with 90Hz ASW to 45, I can put on DLAA and still have GPU headroom with quite a few aircraft. However I can't meet the 45 target with new modules like the Apache or the F-15.

Still, this is a significant improvement from where I was earlier!

[The_Nephilim]

9 hours ago, AhSoul said:

I recently got a Quest 3 and am dipping my toes into DCS VR. My specs are

• Intel 12600KF
• 32Gb DDR4 at 3600
• 3080Ti

I'm running MT DCS, Virtual Desktop (it looks nicer to me than link cable, I guess due to the better codec?) and OpenXR, and with DLSS on I'm just about hitting 72FPS in Instant Action missions on Caucasus (I don't want to use ASW). I'm not able to keep it to 72 though if there's a lot going on, smoke etc. Other maps like Syria reduce my FPS, some modules get me better FPS than others too - the Apache for example seems to be a lot more taxing. I'm also getting stuttering even when at my target FPS - if I look forward the ground looks smooth, but if I look to the side the ground seems to 'jump'.

I'd prefer not to use DLSS - it makes everything less clear even with sharpening on - so I'm trying to work out whether I need to upgrade everything or just my GPU so I could stop turn it off and use MSAA instead.

The FPS monitor in DCS seems to suggest I'm CPU bound (main thread?) but then the OpenXR Overlay seems to suggest I keep running out of GPU headroom. So I'm not entirely sure which direction to go in first!

Well I will say this it does help to lower the Resolution in the headset vs max resolution.. like for my G2 and my 2080Ti I can run 30% native resolution and 60Hz and the game is buttery smooth.. I have played on the 4YA server the most and it runs very well as I am able to maintain 68FPS.

 

The thing with VR is that you need to keep your FPS above you set Hz rate and the best way to di that is lower the resoltion of the VR headset..

[AhSoul]

11 minutes ago, The_Nephilim said:

Well I will say this it does help to lower the Resolution in the headset vs max resolution.. like for my G2 and my 2080Ti I can run 30% native resolution and 60Hz and the game is buttery smooth.. I have played on the 4YA server the most and it runs very well as I am able to maintain 68FPS.

 

The thing with VR is that you need to keep your FPS above you set Hz rate and the best way to di that is lower the resoltion of the VR headset..

Yeah but doesn't it then look a bit crap? I want to play in VR, but not if it looks awful

ASW seems to be the way to go if you don't have a 4090 or something. I'm hitting a locked 45 FPS and the headset is running at 90Hz. I'm using High mode in Virtual Desktop, and a 1.3 PD in DCS. DLAA on and a mix of other settings. Running the headset at 90Hz also seems to make things like using the mouse to interact with the cockpit much smoother.

Edited January 16, 2024 by AhSoul

[Qcumber]

6 hours ago, AhSoul said:

'm using High mode in Virtual Desktop, and a 1.3 PD in DCS. DLAA on and a mix of other settings. Running the headset at 90Hz also seems to make things like using the mouse to interact with the cockpit much smoother

That approach might not be the best. Keep PD at 1.0 and max out resolution with VD. High and 1.3 takes you to Godlike, so you should go for Godlike and PD 1.0. 

[AhSoul]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

That approach might not be the best. Keep PD at 1.0 and max out resolution with VD. High and 1.3 takes you to Godlike, so you should go for Godlike and PD 1.0. 

Oh right. Why does it matter which way round you do it?

[Qcumber]

29 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

Oh right. Why does it matter which way round you do it?

The advice from VD is use the VD resolution settings there first. Then add multipliers onto this. Another way some people do this is to override the resolution in open xr toolkit. Have you tried using quad views foveated rendering yet? That also allows you to adjust resolution. With my Pico 4 I use Godlike on VD then increase the centre resolution to 1.2 and reduce peripheral resolution to 0.4. This gives you a sharp centre focus and about a 30% performance boost. 

[AhSoul]

23 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

The advice from VD is use the VD resolution settings there first. Then add multipliers onto this. Another way some people do this is to override the resolution in open xr toolkit. Have you tried using quad views foveated rendering yet? That also allows you to adjust resolution. With my Pico 4 I use Godlike on VD then increase the centre resolution to 1.2 and reduce peripheral resolution to 0.4. This gives you a sharp centre focus and about a 30% performance boost. 

Oh right. I saw 4090 next to Godlike and just assumed I shouldn't pick it! Will see how it goes.

I've turned on Fixed Foveated Rendering in XR Toolkit - set to Performance/Wide I think (the defaults?). Seemed to get me maybe 5 FPS when I wasn't using ASW. Is Quad Views FV different?

[AhSoul]

I then need to figure out how to get the Apache and F-15 to run well. They seem to really struggle vs my other modules (F-16, F-18 etc).

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, AhSoul said:

I've turned on Fixed Foveated Rendering in XR Toolkit - set to Performance/Wide I think (the defaults?). Seemed to get me maybe 5 FPS when I wasn't using ASW. Is Quad Views FV different?

Yes QVFR uses a different approach and shifts some of the work from your GPU to your CPU. If your CPU can manage the extra work it can make a big difference in performance. You should see more than 5 FPS difference. The quality is also better. It was developed by the same person who did OXRTK (mbucchia) and is much more recent. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki

 

[AhSoul]

4 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Yes QVFR uses a different approach and shifts some of the work from your GPU to your CPU. If your CPU can manage the extra work it can make a big difference in performance. You should see more than 5 FPS difference. The quality is also better. It was developed by the same person who did OXRTK (mbucchia) and is much more recent. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki

 

Oh very interesting, thanks! XR Toolkit is saying I've got a reasonable amount of CPU headroom so worth trying.

I tried Godlike and 1.0 PD in DCS. Looked pretty much the same as High and 1.3 PD. Performance seemed to stay about the same too.

Edited January 16, 2024 by AhSoul

[Qcumber]

4 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

I tried Godlike and 1.0 PD in DCS. Looked pretty much the same as High and 1.3 PD. Performance seemed to stay about the same too

That's what I would expect. How are the visuals? 

[AhSoul]

11 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

That's what I would expect. How are the visuals? 

Pretty good! There's some ghosting, and almost like really small streamers coming off other aircraft in the air at times - most noticeable when the aircraft is against a light background like the sky. I wonder if I should turn off lens effects and maybe bloom (if I've got it on). Not sure if that's encoding/decoding artifacts, or ASW related.

But it's very playable and I can read the MFDs etc. If I pick the F-16 Caucasus Free Flight instant action I've generally got 10-15% GPU headroom. When the ground units start getting blown up that can drop to 5%.

Will try that QVF tool to see if that gets me some more GPU headroom vs XR toolkil FFV. That would let me turn some other options up again perhaps.

Also found https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/xrnecksafer which seems to work pretty well and allows me to see over my shoulder a lot better.

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, AhSoul said:

There's some ghosting, and almost like really small streamers coming off other aircraft in the air at times - most noticeable when the aircraft is against a light background like the sky. I wonder if I should turn off lens effects and maybe bloom (if I've got it on). Not sure if that's encoding/decoding artifacts, or ASW related.

That's a side effect of DLAA and DLSS. Hopefully this will get better with time and optimisation. 

Turn bloom and lens effects off if you use QVFR. They cause artifacts. 

1 hour ago, AhSoul said:

Also found https://gitlab.com/NobiWan/xrnecksafer which seems to work pretty well and allows me to see over my shoulder a lot better.

Yes, it's great. Unfortunately for me it does not always work properly and I am not sure why. According to NobiOne there was a change in a previous DCS update which causes issues for some users. 

[AhSoul]

3 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Yes QVFR uses a different approach and shifts some of the work from your GPU to your CPU. If your CPU can manage the extra work it can make a big difference in performance. You should see more than 5 FPS difference. The quality is also better. It was developed by the same person who did OXRTK (mbucchia) and is much more recent. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki

 

So i just gave this a go - with pretty interesting results.

Not changed any of its default configuration and it's definitely a lot more noticeable than the one from XR Toolkit - looking through my HUD I can't just glance down to read the MFDs as they are now blurry. I have to consciously look at them. I assume I can tweak where it kicks in etc.?

However seems to be a big performance boost. My GPU is now saying 100% headroom, but it's saying that the whole time which feels a bit odd? Very occasionally I drop below 45fps and XRT says I'm CPU bound then it comes back.

Using this lets me fly the F-15 fine now. Though I still can't fly the Apache - still cpu bound and around 30-35FPS.

 

[Qcumber]

24 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

I assume I can tweak where it kicks in etc.?

Yes. You can edit the config file or use this useful app to do it for you:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3332882/#:~:text=Quadviews Companion makes modifying the,implementation of QuadViews a breeze!&text=mbucchia's QuadViews is an essential,you have eye-tracking enabled.

Try increasing the peripheral resolution to about 0.5 or 0.6 and see if that looks better. It's trial an error really. There is always a compromise with VR and that varies by individual. 

[AhSoul]

8 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

Yes. You can edit the config file or use this useful app to do it for you:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3332882/#:~:text=Quadviews Companion makes modifying the,implementation of QuadViews a breeze!&text=mbucchia's QuadViews is an essential,you have eye-tracking enabled.

Try increasing the peripheral resolution to about 0.5 or 0.6 and see if that looks better. It's trial an error really. There is always a compromise with VR and that varies by individual. 

Ok will have a tinker. Seems a bit odd that XRT is showing pretty much 100% headroom the whole time now I'm using QVF. I can't believe that's the case as if I remove ASW I can only get 60-70FPS.

On the plus side it's let me go back to MSAA 4x instead of DLAA, and I think the image looks better as a result.

[Qcumber]

12 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

Ok will have a tinker. Seems a bit odd that XRT is showing pretty much 100% headroom the whole time now I'm using QVF. I can't believe that's the case as if I remove ASW I can only get 60-70FPS.

On the plus side it's let me go back to MSAA 4x instead of DLAA, and I think the image looks better as a result.

MSAAx4 is a big performance hit compared to DLAA. Have you tried running QVFR and DLSS? Better performance but lower quality. 

[AhSoul]

@Qcumber Well apart from the Apache I seem to be fine with MSAA 4x if using 45 ASW and QVFR. I was using DLAA before - DLSS looked too blurry.

I think it depends on what I want to change next. Do I want to try and turn off ASW and hit a locked 72FPS, or do I just want to up some other details like render distance to see what happens.

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2024 by AhSoul

[Gyster]

On 1/15/2024 at 9:01 AM, Qcumber said:

45 FPS ASW will give better results over terrain but you will get ghosting. To be honest, unless you can maintain a steady 72 FPS all the time, you will get some ghosting. I don't think even 4090 users can achieve this. 

 

I think you are confusing runtime and API. Open XR is the application programming interface. Oculus app is the runtime. OTT lets you edit the oculus debug tool settings more easily. Set ASW with OTT and set some key binds so you can toggle between ASW 45hz forced and off. That's what I do rather than relying on the auto function. 

That must look terrible. Try using quad views foveated rendering to reduce the peripheral view to lower res. This will give a big performance boost but still retains a good FOV. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated

I'm running a Pimax 8kx with an i9-13900k @ 5.6 , 4090, 64 GB DDR5 @ 6000, and struggle to keep 72 fps in instant action.  I run Pimax XR, OpenXR toolkit, and Quadviews.  Quadviews made a huge improvement for me.

[Qcumber]

29 minutes ago, Gyster said:

Quadviews made a huge improvement for me.

Yes. QVFR is fantastic. I can get good performance with a 4070 and QP. I might struggle with a pimax 8kx though. 

[StoOopiD]

run default oculus runtime 

ODT- scale gpu=OFF, ASW=off, h.264, dis curve=default,  Link sharpening=quality   SET AND RESTART SERVICE

Quest3 set to 1.3x 72Hz

Quest3 link screen, make sure air link is switched to off  !!!!

Run DCS default updater.exe, set DLSS, High textures, Mid visibility, maxfps=300

keep your eye on the cpu processes in task manager, reduce processes by disabling services you dont need (mad performance here)

 

running a 3080 Strix OC 10g  butter smooth

 

[markturner1960]

Your limiting factor is likely vram. 24gb = good, any less, you will need to compromise on texture quality. I ONLY use the resolution multiplier in the main oculus software, nowhere else, PD at 1 in DCS. Use DFR to bump up image quality in the middle if you can. 72 hz with ASW forced works very well for me.

Oh, and use the cable, much better than virtual desktop and Wi-Fi. Can’t remember my bitrate encode settings offhand, but there is a thread on here with them in.let me know if you have no luck finding.

Oh and MSAA with sharpening at 65 I think……..

Edited February 7, 2024 by markturner1960