Some questions and perhaps frustrations with this module

[cow_art]

2 hours ago, deloy said:

Remember guys, the CAS (Command Augmentation System) is for a different reason than SAS, both systems are termed as SCAS as a whole.  The whole purpose of CAS (it is elaborated very well in the manual) is to give a "power steering" type of response where it augments your control input to make it feel the same when flying at all speeds, so this extra SCAS response you see on controls indicator is actually correct. The CAS should also function when FTR is depressed, which is not correctly modeled at the moment, therefore the helicopter response is the same as FMC off when you flying with Force Trim (FTR) depressed.  So essentially if you press and hold FTR, it just switches the CAS system off also.  This is very evident in control indicator, as you see no movement in "green cross".

 

Cheers

The CAS turning off when FTR is depressed may very well be part of the problem. But as far as I understand there is another problem, which comes from the interaction between the CAS logic and the "flight model".

(Disclaimer: I am sure we have some SME here who can explain the problem far more accurately than me. But I'll give it a try, based on my limited understanding)

AFAIK one job of the CAS is to provide a more immediate response to pilot inputs. In the real Apache there are delays in the control system. The CAS attempts to eliminate these delays by leading the inputs the pilot makes. The problem seems to be, that the delays, which the CAS is trying to eliminate, are currently not simulated in DCS. As a result the CAS in DCS needlessly exaggerates control inputs. Hence the twitchyness and instability.

Edited February 28 by cow_art

[bradmick]

I have literally explained how system works in both the real Apache and dcs in this thread as well as countless others. I’ve said the same thing more times than I can count. Keep going with the conjecture though, because it definitely resolves things and doesn’t muddy the waters or confuse people at all. 

[macedk]

1 hour ago, bradmick said:

I have literally explained how system works in both the real Apache and dcs in this thread as well as countless others. I’ve said the same thing more times than I can count. Keep going with the conjecture though, because it definitely resolves things and doesn’t muddy the waters or confuse people at all. 

Well said

[104th_Money]

The Apache definitely got harder to fly after latest update. Before takeoff I usually disable yaw channel in FMC and during takeoffs and hovers use FTR to be stable and as I move into forward flight at around 30-50 kts I release FTR but yaw channel is permanently disabled. I tried flying it after the update and it has certainly has gotten harder at hover and slow speeds. Normal forward flight seems the same. 
 

I tried not disabling yaw channel using FTR and not using FTR and it’s almost uncontrollable for me…I know it’s a huge undertaking to get it right but it really needs to get fixed already. 

[Raptor9]

The flight model was not changed in this update. I would recommend double-checking that something has not changed in your hardware or control settings.

[AirSenpai]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:52 PM, 104th_Money said:

The Apache definitely got harder to fly after latest update. Before takeoff I usually disable yaw channel in FMC and during takeoffs and hovers use FTR to be stable and as I move into forward flight at around 30-50 kts I release FTR but yaw channel is permanently disabled. I tried flying it after the update and it has certainly has gotten harder at hover and slow speeds. Normal forward flight seems the same. 
 

I tried not disabling yaw channel using FTR and not using FTR and it’s almost uncontrollable for me…I know it’s a huge undertaking to get it right but it really needs to get fixed already. 

Flight model feels the same, what works better and has been refined was the ATT HOLD and ALT HOLD.

the only thing i agree with casmo is that, the feels on the wheels are weird when you lock the wheels and move forward and hit the breaks after collective down and wheter your reset the scas or not, the tail wants to go to the right, but apart from that, the fm have not changed.

[104th_Money]

I've since decided to permanently disable the whole FMC before takeoff. It is much easier for me to control now, especially during takeoffs/landings/hovering...Only problem is that it disables all of the trim modes so I just fly by hand...

[Watari]

Im into DCS helis since BS1 and had some RL hours in the R22.
The  Apache is a bitch
I developed a habit that made the apache failry stable and enjoyable.:
Dont depress FTB, just spam like in the BS.

I use Att hold all the time but turn it off for manouvering and on right after.

Regulary reset the trim . Dont no why but i have the impression its less wobbling and oversensitive.

In short: trim,trim, att hold off, manouver, trim att hold on trim trim, reset trim, trim .... repeat

Only small inputs.

I found it funny that george is flying even worse than I. That guy must be drinking in the back. So AI is struggling with the FM too.

 

I have a TM WH with extension. no curves