Cursor Zero (CZ) without TGP?

[TAIPAN_]

So CZ is critical before going back to NAV mode and finding waypoints or it will be a long way off, but what if you don't have a TGP? TGP is the only way I know to CZ, yet you can get an offset without using the TGP.

Is there any way to reset CZ when in NAV mode?

Or do you have to go to A2G mode and find another way, and how would you do that without a TGP?

[Tholozor]

CZ is available on the FCR.

[TAIPAN_]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:08 PM, Tholozor said:

CZ is available on the FCR.

Thanks! I didn't notice because in NAV mode the radar defaults to CRM mode with no CZ option. Easy enough to switch to GM mode though.

Strange that CZ is on the HSD in BMS but not in DCS.

Also noted that TMS AFTx2 does not trigger CZ on the FCR though, I wonder if the CZ TMS shortcut only applies to the TGP or if it's just not implemented in DCS yet for the FCR CZ.

[Raptor9]

7 hours ago, TAIPAN_ said:

Strange that CZ is on the HSD in BMS but not in DCS.

Also noted that TMS AFTx2 does not trigger CZ on the FCR though, I wonder if the CZ TMS shortcut only applies to the TGP or if it's just not implemented in DCS yet for the FCR CZ.

First of all, I want to point out that DCS is not modeled after other flight sim games. The ED devs do their own research and have their own SMEs that they may take input from. Just because another game does it a specific way does not mean it is correct or accurate. That is all I will say about that because this is not the place to make comparisons. (and it is a violation of forum Rule 1.15)

Having said that, the CZ option should be on the HSD if the criteria has been met for its display (such as if a cursor slew has been incurred). If it is not, then there may be a bug.

Regarding the question about TMS Aft, this is a common point of confusion. A double press of TMS Aft is not a universal Cursor Zero option, nor is Cursor Zero a feature of the TGP. Cursor Zero is a function within the F-16 avionics as a means to reset the applicable cursor slews to zero and is primarily available as the "CZ" OSB option on the FCR, HSD, and TGP MFD formats.

However, a hands-on CZ "shortcut" using TMS Aft is available under the following conditions:

• TGP is set as SOI
• TGP is in SLAVE mode (i.e., not in AREA or POINT track)

Since the TGP is typically in AREA or POINT track if TGP was SOI (because the player has likely been using it), the first TMS Aft sets the TGP to SLAVE, and the second performs the Cursor Zero since the 2x conditions have now been met. However, if the TGP is made SOI and the player does not enter AREA or POINT track, then the first TMS Aft will command Cursor Zero since the 2x conditions above are met.

But again, these two conditions are only available as a shortcut when using the TGP. Otherwise, the only means to command Cursor Zero without the TGP is via the MFD OSB option on the FCR or HSD MFD formats. I hope this clarifies the logic.

[TAIPAN_]

12 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Having said that, the CZ option should be on the HSD if the criteria has been met for its display (such as if a cursor slew has been incurred). If it is not, then there may be a bug.

Thanks understood about comparisons.

Regarding HSD CZ option - I did some more testing and found where it happens. The CZ option is only on the HSD during A/G master mode.

TGP and FCR retain the CZ option in all modes, but HSD loses the CZ option when leaving A/G mode, eg when switching to NAV or A/A mode.

Is this quirk of the HSD being different to other pages correct behaviour?

 

12 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

However, a hands-on CZ "shortcut" using TMS Aft is available under the following conditions:

• TGP is set as SOI
• TGP is in SLAVE mode (i.e., not in AREA or POINT track)

Since the TGP is typically in AREA or POINT track if TGP was SOI (because the player has likely been using it), the first TMS Aft sets the TGP to SLAVE, and the second performs the Cursor Zero since the 2x conditions have now been met. However, if the TGP is made SOI and the player does not enter AREA or POINT track, then the first TMS Aft will command Cursor Zero since the 2x conditions above are met.

Thanks! That detail is very useful. When you say "SLAVE mode" - I assume this is the same thing as "INR Track" like we do TMS AFT to preserve the target location before TGP gets obscured.

One last thing that was bugging me, sometimes with the TGP as SOI and the CZ showing as an available OSB option, using TMS AFT multiple times wasn't doing CZ. The only way to CZ was to use the OSB even though it was via TGP. Are there some types of cursor slew offsets that could prevent TMS AFT from commanding CZ on the TGP even when pressed twice?  

I can't remember all the situations, but once was when designating a target that was not visible due to clouds, though in that case CZ wouldn't disappear even when selecting it on by the OSB.

Edited January 25, 2024 by TAIPAN_

[TAIPAN_]

Adding to above about CZ, I think it could be that CZ DID work but it just doesn't remove it from the MFD page.

Here's a track - It seems that CZ is commanded, and cursor resets to the waypoint in space above the ground, but remains an option on the MFD even though its already been actioned.

CZ not removing from MFD after use2.trk