cannot repoduce and missing track file moving target - which tool ?

[marzzz]

Hi 

i’ve noticed that an uncaged Maverick IR (AGM65-F) couldn’t follow a moving target designated by a ATFLIR pod (Auto track mode) while it works perfectly with the GMT/Sea ground radar.

The only solution i’ve found is to uncage the maverick just before the launch ( inside maverick range , of course)

1- I don t understand why? is it a bug?

2- my feeling is that Auto  mode of the ATFLIR is not very useful ( i didn t try the litening pod).

So, except a bug, the best combo seems to be ATFLIR pod slaved to the ground radar , even with the AGM65-E (laser).

What are your feelings about it ?

thks

 

Edited February 6, 2024 by marzzz

[H60MTI]

Pretty sure you need to have the MAV display up and have to use its internal seeker. I don't think you can use the TPOD unless it's a laser guided maverick.

[rob10]

The ATFLIR auto tracking and MAV-E works fine.  Just realize you likely need to be inside 15 nm to get it to track well, and keep an eye on it because if the target drives by another target like a light post (or an AI vehicle drives past) it may switch targets on you.

[marzzz]

yes it’s true , Mav E works well with ATFLIR auto track but with ground radar too.

it’s not the case with with Mav F

[bonesvf103]

I did a study on this and found out a few things.

 

First of all, and this may be minor and may not be modeled, but it should be considered:  the MAVF, being used by the USN, is meant for ships more than the traditional land-based armor.  That's not to say it won't work on them, but it may have a harder time tracking/locking them then they would a ship which is basically a hot spot on a cold ocean background.

The thing to keep in mind is that when you designate a target in GMT or TPOD, once you switch the TDC to Maverick, it ground stabilizes to the last POINT that you designated in the GMT at that instant, not the target itself.  Thus it will not follow the target.  Now, if you are lucky, it will look at a point that is close enough to the target to catch its IR signature and it will snap to it and lock on, but otherwise, it's just ground stabilized at that particular point until you slew it over and try to lock it. 

I ran several tests in different situations and the basic conclusion I got is that initially the TPOD/GMT will tell the MAVF where to look, but it will not update where it is looking automatically--the MAVF will not follow the target even though the GMT is or the TPOD is.  The closest you can get to this is to constantly TDC depress (target designate) to "update" the MAVF seeker.  In GMT that means you lock the target, TDC to the MAVF, and uncage.  The MAVF will snap to the point that the target that is locked is on, but will stay at that point, it won't move with the lock.  So you either have to break lock in the GMT and slew the MAVF over (it should be reasonably close then), or you TDC back to the radar and redesignate the target to "update" the MAVF and repeat until you get in close enough to discern the target.  Then you should TDC to the GMT, break lock, and immediately TDC to the MAVF MFD and uncage it and fine tune it in the MAVF MFD onto the target until it locks.  Then you can rifle. 

Same goes when using a TPOD.  Lock the target in the TPOD with PTRK, then designate it (remember locking it only means the TPOD will follow it, not make it SPI).  TDC over to the MAVF and uncage, and it will slew right to the point that you designated, but it will stay there.  If the target moves, even though the TPOD is locked onto it, the MAVF won't follow it, it will remain ground stabilized at the last designated point.  TDC back to the TPOD and TDC designate it again.  This will update the MAVF and look at that point again.  Repeat this until the target is close enough to be seen well in the MAVF MFD.  When that happens, TDC designate in the TPOD one more time, then break lock, then immediately TDC to the MAVF page and slew the MAVF onto the target until it locks.  Then you can rifle.

Here is a video (sorry no audio) of one of those tests:

Note that in the video, to demonstrate how the MAVF does not automatically follow the target even though it is locked and designated in the TPOD (at :34), you will see in the HUD the diamond showing the TPOD lock and the triangle showing the MAVF seeker start on top of each other but as the target moves, the diamond separates from the triangle as it moves with the target but the triangle itself stays put where I last designated (at around :50).  So I have to TDC back to the TPOD, TDC designate again, then the MAVF snaps to that new point.  I repeat this until I get close enough to lock it with the MAVF itself, at which time I break the TPOD lock, and immediately TDC to the MAVF and slew it onto a lock and rifle.

The Maverick will not continuously follow a target in PTRK/ATRK.  Only Mavericks used by F-16s and A-10 do.

v6,

boNes

[marzzz]

thanks for your post, bones

i globally agree with you and it’s quite logical.

but with my own tests , the MAVF follows the GMT track . 

And in this case , the  MAVF update is automatic, you don’t need to TDC undesignate/redesignate

 

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by marzzz

[bonesvf103]

17 hours ago, marzzz said:

thanks for your post, bones

i globally agree with you and it’s quite logical.

but with my own tests , the MAVF follows the GMT track . 

And in this case , the  MAVF update is automatic, you don’t need to TDC undesignate/redesignate

 

 

 

Yup!  After I posted and was able to get to my PC, I checked GMT and yes I did notice that it did seem to work fine.  Maybe at the time of testing, it was stiill behaving in the way I described and this was fixed later, I dunno.  But what I said about the TPOD stuff still applies it seems.

Guess MAVF likes the GMT more than TPODs!

v6,

boNes

Edited February 8, 2024 by bonesvf103

[Chaffee]

This is good to know.

I was recently practicing Mavs and found that the -E is much easier to use against moving armor than the -F, even if these monsters seem a bit "overkill" for tanks. This was primarily an effect of using the TPOD with the -F...

Even YouTube tutorials seemed pretty nuts in terms of getting the -F to do much of anything with the TPOD vs. armor.

Not my favorite weapon in the F-18, which is just fine.