FPS drop after F10 map

[Richrach]

[Richrach]

Apparently, my write-up did not survive being posted.  Here is the condensed version.

The above post lists my settings and observations in the game.  By capping FPS to 50 with the above I am getting zero stutter, zero problems, completely smooth play, and great graphics.

I have tried all the suggestions in the forums and elsewhere for maxing out FPS, overclocking, tweaking, and the like.  Here is where I have settled.  It appears too many guys are so focused on maxing out their settings and are missing some key thoughts.  Here is the synopsis:

- CPU/GPU/VRAM/RAM.  If you are maxing out any of these, you are by definition going to get stutter and problems.  Maxing means maxing.  At some point you will exceed the max, and when you do, stutter and other problems happen.  It is not a sprint, it is a marathon.  Plan/play accordingly.

- If you look at my settings and utilization in the previous post, you will see I am well within the limits of my system.  This means my computer is happy.  Happy computer = happy player.

Watch the following video, which is the best explanation of what I just posted I have ever seen.  This guy deserves a great deal of respect for making it all so simple. - Richrach

 

[MemphisBelle]

 

8 hours ago, Reflected said:

Nope this didn't help. I'm still struggling with this very much. I really hope ED can figure out a solution finally.

 

7 hours ago, kitten40 said:

Seems like a lot of users are having this issue (myself included), and a lot of the time people are talking about Process Lasso and the Intel E-cores and P-cores. Does anyone have any info regarding Process Lasso and AMD processors that I could try? I feel like I've hit a brick wall when it comes to trying to remedy this situation.

Have you guys played around with the OculusDebugTool? I assume you also have the Quest (2/3). If you have not yet played around with it I highly recommend doing so. I can tell you that this was a Game changer for me, a difference like day and night. 
The most important options to tweak there are the:
- meta link App resolution settings: 72Hz Render resolution of at least 1.0x (4224 x 2272 (meta Quest 3 values))
Oculus DebugTool settings (to find in: C:\Program Files\Oculus\Support\oculus-diagnostics)
- (PC) Asynchronous Spacewarp to set to Force 45fps, ASW disabled
- Distortion Curvature to Low
- Encode Resolution With to be lined up with your meta link App resolution setting, in my Case its 2272
- Encode Bitrate (Mbps): at least 500, can be set higher but to do that type the value on a Textfile and copy/paste into the field, I have it set to 500.
- Link sharpening to normal

Additional tweaking here would be the FOV-Tangent Multiplier to set to 0.7 on Horizontal and Vertical (be aware that this will crop your FoV on the outsides, but also will save Frames per second)

Since I have changed these, I have no stutter, no Jitter, no distortions anymore and my GFX card is considered weak compared with the Cards from other guys with the meta Quest 3.
I hope that this will help you

[kitten40]

3 hours ago, MemphisBelle said:

Have you guys played around with the OculusDebugTool? I assume you also have the Quest (2/3)

I can't speak for Reflected, but myself I am using the Reverb G2 (I probably should have made that clear as well). But thank you for sharing your insight anyway, much appreciated

Edit: Spelling

Edited May 1, 2024 by kitten40

[Reflected]

3 hours ago, MemphisBelle said:

 

 

Have you guys played around with the OculusDebugTool? I assume you also have the Quest (2/3). If you have not yet played around with it I highly recommend doing so. I can tell you that this was a Game changer for me, a difference like day and night. 
The most important options to tweak there are the:
- meta link App resolution settings: 72Hz Render resolution of at least 1.0x (4224 x 2272 (meta Quest 3 values))
Oculus DebugTool settings (to find in: C:\Program Files\Oculus\Support\oculus-diagnostics)
- (PC) Asynchronous Spacewarp to set to Force 45fps, ASW disabled
- Distortion Curvature to Low
- Encode Resolution With to be lined up with your meta link App resolution setting, in my Case its 2272
- Encode Bitrate (Mbps): at least 500, can be set higher but to do that type the value on a Textfile and copy/paste into the field, I have it set to 500.
- Link sharpening to normal

Additional tweaking here would be the FOV-Tangent Multiplier to set to 0.7 on Horizontal and Vertical (be aware that this will crop your FoV on the outsides, but also will save Frames per second)

Since I have changed these, I have no stutter, no Jitter, no distortions anymore and my GFX card is considered weak compared with the Cards from other guys with the meta Quest 3.
I hope that this will help you

Thanks, I'm using the Oculus Tray tool with similar settings - except: Encode bitrate - it gives me weird jitters if set above 200. Also, Encode resolution - is that the lower value of the Meta app setting? I set mine to 3664 because someone recommended it. Also, I have smoother gameplay with ASW on.

[MemphisBelle]

8 hours ago, Reflected said:

Thanks, I'm using the Oculus Tray tool with similar settings - except: Encode bitrate - it gives me weird jitters if set above 200. Also, Encode resolution - is that the lower value of the Meta app setting? I set mine to 3664 because someone recommended it. Also, I have smoother gameplay with ASW on.

Have we talked about your Specs already? What a System do you have?

Apart of it, are you running Windows 10 or 11?

[Reflected]

I have an ASUS F15 FX507ZR with 32GB RAM and a 3070. Win 11. Usually I get OK performance, my problem is that after a while, especially if I open the F10 map, I gat crazy stutter and latency spikes which either go away after alt tabbing or they don't. Especially over the Marianas.

[AhSoul]

4 hours ago, Reflected said:

I have an ASUS F15 FX507ZR with 32GB RAM and a 3070. Win 11. Usually I get OK performance, my problem is that after a while, especially if I open the F10 map, I gat crazy stutter and latency spikes which either go away after alt tabbing or they don't. Especially over the Marianas.

Marianas is by far the worse map for me. I don't even bother trying to use it. I'm targeting 72FPS with MSAA 2x and no ASW/SSW, and with reasonable quality of graphics I can't keep above that on Marianas with a 4080Super.

Which module you fly seems to make a massive difference as well. I have way more GPU overhead free with say the Hornet than I do with the F-15E or the Apache. But given I change modules a lot I have to tune for the worst module/map I use.

Edited May 2, 2024 by AhSoul

[AhSoul]

Oh also no idea if this actually helps, but https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336353/ removes the aircraft from the VR menu hangar and claims to help performance.

[Reflected]

22 minutes ago, AhSoul said:

Oh also no idea if this actually helps, but https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336353/ removes the aircraft from the VR menu hangar and claims to help performance.

even while flying a mission? Or just in the menu?

 

[AhSoul]

3 minutes ago, Reflected said:

even while flying a mission? Or just in the menu?

 

It sounds like the VR hangar is always loaded - isn't it there in the background when you F-10 during a mission? - so simplifying it reduces VRAM and therefore helps performance at all times. Could be a placebo, but I'm going to give it a go.

[Richrach]

The basic issue is this:  What percent of your CPU, GPU, RAM and VRAM are being utilized?  If you are maxing out any of these, you are going to get stutters and problems.  Any means any.  If you are only using 85% of your GPU, but your CPU is maxed out, stutter.  CPU okay, but VRAM maxed out?  Stutter.  When you demand your system run at capacity, then shift all the processing to another entirely different screen/process, you are going to get stutter/freeze as the maxed out system must shed something to comply with your desire.

 

Any of the four critical components being at 98% or more is going to buy you stutter.  Nothing is going to stop that.  (Note:  If your CPU is in turbo mode, it is possible to register more than 100% utilization while still actually being below max load.  See my screen shot in a previous post.  The P-cores say they are at 111%, but the max is actually 139%.  Temperatures, while not shown, for my CPU are below the mid-70s and the computer will run like this all day long without throttling.  In the past, I would run the CPU high enough to generate 90 degree plus CPU temperatures and had near-legendary stutter issues... well no kidding.)

 

So far, no one experiencing this problem has posted their utilization(s) from HWMon or anywhere else.  That is why I did.  I have zero problems since I dialed back my utilization and have eliminated the problems with stutter, lag, and freezing.  I had all those issues myself until I throttled my expectations back to a level my system could handle.

 

My system is less powerful than many of those complaining of having a stutter problem.  This indicates the first place to look to resolve the issue is demand (settings too high), or a corruption of a file/files within the computer itself.

 

Has anyone having this problem tried to turn EVERY setting down to its lowest and checked to see if the problem still exists?  That would be the first step in true troubleshooting.  If the problem goes away, the next step is to introduce higher settings one at a time until one finds the level at which the problem appears again, then dial back into the acceptable zone.  Time consuming, but logical.

- Richrach

 

[MemphisBelle]

6 hours ago, Reflected said:

I have an ASUS F15 FX507ZR with 32GB RAM and a 3070. Win 11. Usually I get OK performance, my problem is that after a while, especially if I open the F10 map, I gat crazy stutter and latency spikes which either go away after alt tabbing or they don't. Especially over the Marianas.

Which VR Headset are you using? Or do those issue appear even in 2D?

[AhSoul]

On 5/2/2024 at 2:59 PM, Richrach said:

The basic issue is this:  What percent of your CPU, GPU, RAM and VRAM are being utilized?  If you are maxing out any of these, you are going to get stutters and problems.  Any means any.  If you are only using 85% of your GPU, but your CPU is maxed out, stutter.  CPU okay, but VRAM maxed out?  Stutter.  When you demand your system run at capacity, then shift all the processing to another entirely different screen/process, you are going to get stutter/freeze as the maxed out system must shed something to comply with your desire.

 

 

I think we're confusing general stuttering with the weird thing that happens coming out of the F-10 map though (which is what this thread is supposed to be about).

My system can run the Apache on Syria with headroom to spare at 72+ FPS all day long, but sometimes can't cope with exiting the map. This feels a bit strange.

Edited May 3, 2024 by AhSoul

[Richrach]

AhSoul, copy.

In  my time in DCS I have been in the camp or trying to eke out the maximum from my system.  What is being described may well be a problem for some certain systems and players, no question.  My experience tells me, with possible exceptions, it is still likely because systems are being asked to do too much too fast.  This is why I posted all the info from my own system to players could check my data against their own observations to see if my input is helpful.  If not?  Over to DCS to smooth out the problem if they can find it.

Thank you for your excellent perspective. - Richrach

[Richrach]

Forgot to mention, I did start in DCS with an I5-4570 processor and a GTX-960 GPU with 8GB RAM.  I progressed through different processors and GPUs, so I did play the game of upgrade-upgrade-upgrade before realizing I did not have to keep up with everyone else's reported performance to have fun.  Having a blast now at my rock solid 50FPS.

 

I hope you/they find the problem and iron it out. - Richrach

[AhSoul]

19 hours ago, Richrach said:

AhSoul, copy.

In  my time in DCS I have been in the camp or trying to eke out the maximum from my system.  What is being described may well be a problem for some certain systems and players, no question.  My experience tells me, with possible exceptions, it is still likely because systems are being asked to do too much too fast.  This is why I posted all the info from my own system to players could check my data against their own observations to see if my input is helpful.  If not?  Over to DCS to smooth out the problem if they can find it.

Thank you for your excellent perspective. - Richrach

And thank you for yours! There's definitely a bunch of things in play here and people's specs and settings is definitely one of them.

I noticed that I was maxing out my 32GB of RAM 3 or 4 weeks ago. For the first 15 or so mins in DCS it was maxed, then it would drop to around 28GB. I upgraded to 64GB and it's often sat higher than 32GB, which proves to me that at my settings and with the modules I play DCS needs more than 32GB at times. I think I've had less overall stuttering as a result. So tuning your settings and system is definitely something VR players need to be able to do.

However the F-10 thing is still odd. Some times it's fine, sometimes it's not. Same with changing modules. I jumped in the F-15E after having flown the Huey for a bit, and my system was unstable for a good couple of minutes. Lots of FPS fluctuations which made it pretty much unusable. Then it just sorts itself out and I can fly that module fine for the next 2 hours.

Edited May 4, 2024 by AhSoul

[Richrach]

I have pondered this overnight and looked at it from a troubleshooting perspective.  While I do not know the ins and outs of the DCS software, I do know troubleshooting very well as a test pilot, aircraft designer/builder, and avionics installer.  I have a reasonable level of expertise in the basics.

 

To really find out if the problem is embedded in the DCS architecture or is a resources (CPU/GPU/RAM/VRAM) issue, one has to do the following.

1.  Tools needed: Software that can track CPU/GPU/RAM/VRAM usage real time.  I use CPUID HWMon because it covers everything and works best for me.  I would also run MSI Afterburner as it provides a graphic timeline that one can use to correlate the problem seen with where in the system the problem is.  Lining up the graphs for each system should point out quickly what is failing or causing the issue or at least what components are experiencing the problem.  Just knowing this last bit can go a long way to solving the issue.

2. Run DCS and recreate the problem.  Take screen shots or otherwise document the problem for comparison.  You now have the problem baseline.

3. Turn EVERY setting in DCS down to its minimum.  Every means every, guys.  Just turning off one or two things you think might be the problem is not going to cut it.  You are starting out not knowing anything.  Now is not the time to try to read the last chapter in the book.  Start at page one, chapter one.  To put it in simple pilot terms it would be like entering a dogfight with your landing gear down... i.e. stupid. 

If the problem goes away you now have the solution baseline.  If it does not go away, you know the problem is not in your hardware being overtasked,a but actually does reside in the DCS program. 

Take screen shots, add them to the original baseline shots, and send them to DCS.  Your work is now over and you can wait for DCS to solve it from their end knowing you have given them all you can to help identify and solve the problem.

4. If the problem went away start adding higher settings until the problem reappears. One at a time.  The point problems reappear corresponds to the limits of your system.

At that point one can try different combinations of settings to personalize the game to one's own taste.  By way of example, I run 50FPS because the settings I use for that give me an excellent experience.  I can vary the settings in different ways and get up to 65-70FPS but the feel is not as good as the 50FPS game.  My choice based on subjective opinion. 

You may arrive at totally different combinations and that is fine.  The bottom line is you have found the limits of your system in terms of utilization and can adjust for your own taste as needed.

*** Again, if Step 3 shows the problem followed you to the minimum settings, it is likely in the DCS software.  However, if you do not follow this procedure to positively verify what the issue is, one has no room to claim DSC is the problem because you have no way to back that accusation up.

- Richrach, King of the 50FPS Hill!

 

[AhSoul]

Thanks for the write-up. From a quick look at HWinfo while DCS is running, I notice that one thread is maxed out pretty much all the time (on a 14700KF running MT). This might be totally normal for DCS - I'm not sure. It's like this literally sat at the main menu so I guess it's unlikely to be the issue, but it's interesting.

 

The F-10 issue in this thread sounds pretty similar to this (and I get this also).

 

[Richrach]

AhSoul, I admit I am not really sure what I am looking at in your last post.  HWMon will provide a display that gives readouts of current value, min and max over a given period of time.  Get a snapshot of that for the CPU, GPU, RAM and VRAM while the game is running first.  Refer to my post with the screen shots.

 

If the above is just the cores in your CPU, something is amiss for a single core to be taking on that much load while the rest are not.  Again, look at the Process Lasso screen shot I put out.  All my P-cores are essentially sharing the load.  Often when I play all my cores will have the exact same load as they share.  That does not appear to be what your processor is doing.  I am running an i5-12600KF (6P/4E)

 

MY OPINION is something is wrong if one core is that busy and the rest are not doing much.  That just does not pass the sniff test.  Just a guess that may be irrelevant to the discussion but do you have hyperthreading disabled in your bios?  From intel: Hyper-Threading is an Intel® hardware innovation that allows multiple threads to run on each core, this means more work can be done in parallel.  If this were on, it might be possible the CPU is trying to hyperthread DCS MT onto a single logical core in your computer.  The bios logic might be seeing this as a win, but you and I see it as a disaster. (I just noticed "hyper-V" is activated according to your screen shot.  Can you disable this and try again?)

 

I hope this gives you some good ideas of where to look! - Richrach

 

 

[Richrach]

AhSoul,

 

Here is a screen shot of my Task Manager showing my 6P and 4E cores.  Note all the P-cores are being used about equally.  This is while I was in VR in DCS.  Hyperthread off in bios.  Process Lasso set DCS set to use P-cores only.  This is very different from what you are seeing. 

 

Going to send this now.  Afterward I will go into bios and turn hyperthreading on and do the same thing.  We shall see what happens.  Back in a few.

 

 

[Richrach]

AhSoul, your hyperthread is on in bios.  I just turned mine on and entered DCS and got similar results to what you posted.

 

Hyperthread is a known problem with DCS.  Do not know why.  Turn it off in your bios when your computer boots up.  While this may not be the solution, it should help at the very least.

 

Let me know how it goes.

- Richrach.

[AhSoul]

Doesn't turning off hyperthreading halve my available threads for non-DCS applications and games though? Would be pretty annoying if I had to keep turning hyperthreading on and off.

I might as well at least try it and see what it does.

Seems like there's also some issue where DCS gets locked to one thread 

I'm currently sat at my desktop with DCS running at the main menu in the background. Threads 8 & 10 at 100% and virtually nothing else being used. If I remove those from DCS cpu affinity the load just moves to threads 9 & 11.

Edited May 5, 2024 by AhSoul

[Richrach]

Ah, yes, turning off hyperthreading does "turn off" half of your cores.  That is not an issue though as DCS does not use all cores anyway.  You only need the number of cores DCS needs, which is well below your CPU's number.  Multi-core in DCS does not equate to All-core.  It only uses what is has been programmed to use, so having 6 cores or 100 cores makes no difference to the game.

So, did you try turning off hyperthreading and doing nothing else?  I would do this and see what it does to your in-game experience before even looking at the graphs and such.  Your experience as a player is the key.  Graphs and numbers are only there to help you find the best experience from your perspective. 

[AhSoul]

Yeah I know DCS doesn't use all of them. But for all I know other applications or games I play might.

I'm going to try it though and see if I still have 2 cores stuck at 100%