Need help on choosing which ROLE and PAYLOAD to use for F16/18 for my mission

[maverick90]

I am currently using the ME to design a scenario that I wish to play out but not sure what all the roles do.

I would like to specifically know which role to pick for the following types of mission that I want to carry out for the following planes, the F16 and F18.

1. What role to use if I want to specifically target LAND targets only, like SAM/AAA, Tanks, Infantry?
2. What role to use if I want to specifically target ships?
3. What is the best AG payload for F16/F18 to takeout land targets? (I'm thinking to load up all CBU-105's on the F16)
4. What is the best AA payload for F16/F18 to takeout Enemy Aircraft, Helicopters?
5. What is the best payload for F16/F18 to takeout ships?

Also, how can I set the AI planes to automatically go after these targets in the mission editor?

Edited April 29, 2024 by maverick90

[razo+r]

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

I am currently using the ME to design a scenario that I wish to play out but not sure what all the roles do.

I would like to specifically know which role to pick for the following types of mission that I want to carry out for the following planes, the F16 and F18.

What role to use if I want to specifically target LAND targets only, like SAM/AAA, Tanks, Infantry?

SEAD for SAM/AAA and Ground Attack or CAS for anything else. 

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

1. What role to use if I want to specifically target ships?

Anti ship. 

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

1. What is the best AG payload for F16/F18 to takeout land targets? (I'm thinking to load up all CBU-105's on the F16)

There is no best. CBU work well on clustered group of targets, but for single ones you can also use GBUs or dumb bombs. Guided stuff also works against high threat targets. 

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

1. What is the best AA payload for F16/F18 to takeout Enemy Aircraft, Helicopters?

In case of the F-16, the only two types you have. AIM-120 and AIM-9. How many to take of which one depends on what you expect to fight. Only fighters? Might go with 4 or 6 AIM-120. Helicopters? 2/2 of each or so can work. 

Same principle applies for the Hornet. Only take the AIM-7 if you want a challenge or fly in a 80s scenario. Also, you may not take double racks if you want a bit less drag. 

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

1. What is the best payload for F16/F18 to takeout ships

Biggest bombs there are. Though now that ships can shoot bombs out of the sky, perhaps leave this task to aircraft dedicated to this role. 

5 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

Also, how can I set the AI planes to automatically go after these targets in the mission editor?

 

Advanced waypoint options - task - attack group or something like that. 

[maverick90]

Is it possible to use the Mission Editor to have an AI vs AI battle so you can load it up and spectate the entire thing? That's what I'm trying to accomplish here.

[razo+r]

Yes, that is possible. 

[Exorcet]

30 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

I am currently using the ME to design a scenario that I wish to play out but not sure what all the roles do.

I would like to specifically know which role to pick for the following types of mission that I want to carry out for the following planes, the F16 and F18.

1. What role to use if I want to specifically target LAND targets only, like SAM/AAA, Tanks, Infantry?
2. What role to use if I want to specifically target ships?
3. What is the best AG payload for F16/F18 to takeout land targets? (I'm thinking to load up all CBU-105's on the F16)
4. What is the best AA payload for F16/F18 to takeout Enemy Aircraft, Helicopters?
5. What is the best payload for F16/F18 to takeout ships?

Also, how can I set the AI planes to automatically go after these targets in the mission editor?

 

The DCS manual covers task types

 

I suggest picking the task you need, deleting the default waypoint action and replacing it with some kind of Search Then Engage or Search Then Engage in Zone action.

1. SEAD for focusing in SAM/AAA, CAS for ground targets in general including SAM/AAA. With Search Then Engage you have a list of target checkboxes that you can use to exclude certain targets like ships.

2. Antiship, although CAS has some antiship options through Search Then Engage.

3. This is always mission dependent. CBU-105 is great for groups of armored vehicles or short ranged air defenses. However it also reduces range and performance and doesn't have the reach to fight long range SAM's nor the concentrated fire power to defeated hardened targets (maybe, DCS damage modeling may let it excel at roles it shouldn't). AGM-88, AGM-65, Mk80/JDAM/Paveway are all common AG weapons for these planes. Additionally jammers and avionics pods are available when needed.

4. This is again mission dependent. Both planes carry AIM-9 L/M/X and AIM-120 B/C. The F-18 can also carry AIM-7/M/MH/P. AIM-120C is the longest range and best use against the highest threats. AIM-120B is slightly worse than the 120C but might be more available depending on timeframe or situation. Missions against lower threats may use 120B's to save C's for tougher fights. The AIM-9 is a short range IR missile. Use it when dogfights are expected, or perhaps when low capability air targets are present. It's common to mix both types, with more 120's carried, as if one kind of missile fails the other can be used. Both planes also have a gun with different types of ammo that can be swapped depending on mission.

5. The F-16 is not an antiship aircraft. It can attack ships with AGM-65 and dumb/laser bombs, but the Air Force would use B-52's instead. The F-18 has AGM-65's and bombs in addition to AGM-84 Harpoon antiship missiles. Harpoon is overkill for very small ships but needed for large warships.

To set the planes up in the ME they need a route with waypoints and tasks at the waypoints to follow. Search Then Engage and Search Then Engage in Zone allow you to configure their attack settings provided the correct Task is set when adding the plane to the map. The DCS documentation explains in more detail.

[maverick90]

6 hours ago, Exorcet said:

5. The F-16 is not an antiship aircraft. It can attack ships with AGM-65 and dumb/laser bombs, but the Air Force would use B-52's instead. The F-18 has AGM-65's and bombs in addition to AGM-84 Harpoon antiship missiles. Harpoon is overkill for very small ships but needed for large warships.

I actuallytried tried testing out the antiship attack by spawning in a group of B52 Bombers and for each one I tried one of the 3 different payloads available for it. I had them take off from the runway at Anderson AFB in the marianas. I believed I left the waypoint tasks at default. I then spawned some USSR enemy boats nearby off the coast of, some harbor boats, and then later some Carriers and a Support ship. For the 1st testing run, the B52's were able to take out 3 out of the 4 harbor boats. Not sure why it didn't take out the last one. I placed the harbor boats close by. 4 fully loaded B52's should've been able to take them out no problem.

For the 2nd run, the USSR enemy cruiser and carrier shift fired their weapoons and were able to take out all 4 B52's. And I believe the B52's were flying at aruond 2500-6000 AGL right after takeoff. Am I doing something wrong, or are the B52's not up to the task to take out those enemy ships?

 

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, maverick90 said:

I actuallytried tried testing out the antiship attack by spawning in a group of B52 Bombers and for each one I tried one of the 3 different payloads available for it.

Antiship for the B-52 should only have 1 payload option which is AGM-84's. You can add extra AGM-84 under the wings.

2 hours ago, maverick90 said:

I had them take off from the runway at Anderson AFB in the marianas. I believed I left the waypoint tasks at default. I then spawned some USSR enemy boats nearby off the coast of, some harbor boats, and then later some Carriers and a Support ship. For the 1st testing run, the B52's were able to take out 3 out of the 4 harbor boats. Not sure why it didn't take out the last one. I placed the harbor boats close by. 4 fully loaded B52's should've been able to take them out no problem.

I'd be careful with default settings. They will get the AI to act but sometimes in unpredictable ways. Nearby doesn't sound good for an antiship mission. If there are small boats close to the airbase that's a mission better served by lighter CAS aircraft. Also many naval ships have very powerful missile systems because they need heavy defense to be worth the cost of building. B-52's should not come within 50 miles of enemy ships. Here is what a flight plan might look like:

Notice the distances.

2 hours ago, maverick90 said:

For the 2nd run, the USSR enemy cruiser and carrier shift fired their weapoons and were able to take out all 4 B52's. And I believe the B52's were flying at aruond 2500-6000 AGL right after takeoff. Am I doing something wrong, or are the B52's not up to the task to take out those enemy ships?

B-52's main defense against ships is to never get close. The AGM-84 allows them to attack from miles away. The situation where bombers take off from a base and try to attack ships nearby isn't realistic and that's the problem with the situation you set up. Realistically the bombers would attack from a distance and use a mass missile salvo to overwhelm the ships:

Here is the attack from the plan above, this is as close as the bombers ever get and notice they fire a lot of missiles. The mission is attached.

AntishipB52.miz

[maverick90]

Thanks a lot for posting a miz file for me to test and look at. This will help me greatly.

[Glide]

You can't always get the AI to perform, and this is by design.  There is some randomness to their behavior to make for a variety of outcomes each time you play through a mission.  If a ground unit is partially damaged or decides to abort because 3 out of 4 of their group is destroyed, the Ai aircraft may breakoff.  If the AI run low on fuel they will often decide to head for the nearest base.  All this adds to the realism of the mission.  Be sure to check the log after the mission to see the AI actions as this will help troubleshoot.

[maverick90]

12 hours ago, Exorcet said:

Antiship for the B-52 should only have 1 payload option which is AGM-84's. You can add extra AGM-84 under the wings.

I'd be careful with default settings. They will get the AI to act but sometimes in unpredictable ways. Nearby doesn't sound good for an antiship mission. If there are small boats close to the airbase that's a mission better served by lighter CAS aircraft. Also many naval ships have very powerful missile systems because they need heavy defense to be worth the cost of building. B-52's should not come within 50 miles of enemy ships. Here is what a flight plan might look like:

Notice the distances.

B-52's main defense against ships is to never get close. The AGM-84 allows them to attack from miles away. The situation where bombers take off from a base and try to attack ships nearby isn't realistic and that's the problem with the situation you set up. Realistically the bombers would attack from a distance and use a mass missile salvo to overwhelm the ships:

Here is the attack from the plan above, this is as close as the bombers ever get and notice they fire a lot of missiles. The mission is attached.

AntishipB52.miz 10.2 kB · 1 download

For some reason when launching your mission. The B52's don't ever take off. I checked the start time and they're set to start immediately.

[Exorcet]

2 minutes ago, maverick90 said:

For some reason when launching your mission. The B52's don't ever take off. I checked the start time and they're set to start immediately.

They are set to "Start from ramp" meaning they need to do a start up process before taking off. For the B-52 this can take 15 minutes. Ctrl Z will let you speed up time. How much you can go is machine dependent, but as this is an AI only mission you should be able to speed up pretty far. I was able to run this mission at 100x speed.

 

Shift Z brings you back to 1x speed and Alt Z slows down time.

In the ME you can also change the first waypoint type from Start from Ramp to Start from Ramp Hot, this will make them start taxi sooner as they will already be started. Or just make it takeoff from runway or turning point to start on the runway/in the air.