[sp / CO-OP MP] EXPANSION - a Dynamic Mission and Sandbox (all aircraft)

[Grindmetal]

Did you edit missionscript.lua?

 

do
    sanitizeModule('os')
    --sanitizeModule('io')
    --sanitizeModule('lfs')
    _G['require'] = nil
    _G['loadlib'] = nil
    _G['package'] = nil
end

 

[mcfleck]

Did you edit missionscript.lua?
 

do    sanitizeModule('os')    --sanitizeModule('io')    --sanitizeModule('lfs')    _G['require'] = nil    _G['loadlib'] = nil    _G['package'] = nilend

 

Yes I did and the persistance works. I was able to load into the previous state after the first crash.

[cfrag]

8 hours ago, mcfleck said:

Btw:

I changed the AI loadouts a bit. The CAP F18 were equiped with a datalink pod instead of a fuel tank for example.

Thank you so much for this report. Yours is now the second of this kind (stack overflow on 'clone', a function that worked flawlessly for many years) that I'm beginning to think that something deep inside in DCS has changed, there now appear to cyclic data structures or truly big tables attached to some data. I'm trying to re-create the issue, and so far have not been able to. So just to make sure: are you running any MODs with your version of Expansion? 

I'm patching the clone method now to try and avoid the issue, I'll see how quickly I can release an update, maybe even before the week-end.  

[mcfleck]

Thank you so much for this report. Yours is now the second of this kind (stack overflow on 'clone', a function that worked flawlessly for many years) that I'm beginning to think that something deep inside in DCS has changed, there now appear to cyclic data structures or truly big tables attached to some data. I'm trying to re-create the issue, and so far have not been able to. So just to make sure: are you running any MODs with your version of Expansion? 
I'm patching the clone method now to try and avoid the issue, I'll see how quickly I can release an update, maybe even before the week-end.  

Well I changed all the Apaches special multiplayer control priority options to "equally responsible" as I want to take over the controls from my pilot in case of emergency without him having to click on accept.
But that should be irrelevant for this kind of error.
Other than that no other modifications.

I skimmed through the log file and saw that the spawned RPG soldier caused some issues. May be related or not. The log file seems to contain several errors not related to the mission (like the missing damage model for the UH1).

If I can help you analyzing and testing this issue further, hit me up. I'll be glad to assist you.

[skiboss]

Hi Cfrag,

thanks for putting this together, its a very fun mission and our group at 76SQN is regularly getting 10 players a night grinding away at this. We're tweaking things a little, adding some aircraft and suppressing some of the persistence file saving messages.

With the release of the Kiowa today, are you planning on releasing V1.23 in the foreseeable future with the Kiowa added? If not, ill add it manually into our version of your mission.

Thanks again mate. Will be diving into your DML mission creation toolbox next.

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, skiboss said:

are you planning on releasing V1.23 in the foreseeable future with the Kiowa added?

Watch this space

 

[cfrag]

Version 1.30 - 20240606 - "Kiowa & Reapers"

So the Kiowa touched down yesterday, and I added it to Expansion. In addition to its main duty to mark targets it can also be used for CSAR in Expansion. 

This update also brings Reaper drones that don't fight, but provide lasing for targets.

All Changes:
•    Slightly moved AA in Nalchik to avoid debris blocking the runway
•    New Reaper Drone ability for providing lasing assistance 
•    Reapers available for Baksan, April, May, October, December, Kashhatau and Vladikavkaz
•    Made some AA/SAM slightly more aggressive 
•    Added FCR / Lima Hellfires to second Apache on all airfields
•    patched an obscure bug that can cause a stack overflow during mission saving (persistence) 
•    changed the default player A-10C loadout: added APKWS (one 7x tube)
•    Added 2 x A-10C (player) to Beslan (with APKWS)
•    Added 2 x player Kiowas to all airfields
 

Enjoy,

-ch

[skiboss]

48 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Version 1.30 - 20240606 - "Kiowa & Reapers"

So the Kiowa touched down yesterday, and I added it to Expansion. In addition to its main duty to mark targets it can also be used for CSAR in Expansion. 

This update also brings Reaper drones that don't fight, but provide lasing for targets.

All Changes:
•    Slightly moved AA in Nalchik to avoid debris blocking the runway
•    New Reaper Drone ability for providing lasing assistance 
•    Reapers available for Baksan, April, May, October, December, Kashhatau and Vladikavkaz
•    Made some AA/SAM slightly more aggressive 
•    Added FCR / Lima Hellfires to second Apache on all airfields
•    patched an obscure bug that can cause a stack overflow during mission saving (persistence) 
•    changed the default player A-10C loadout: added APKWS (one 7x tube)
•    Added 2 x A-10C (player) to Beslan (with APKWS)
•    Added 2 x player Kiowas to all airfields
 

Enjoy,

-ch

You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thanks mate 

[mcfleck]

Version 1.30 - 20240606 - "Kiowa & Reapers"
So the Kiowa touched down yesterday, and I added it to Expansion. In addition to its main duty to mark targets it can also be used for CSAR in Expansion. 
This update also brings Reaper drones that don't fight, but provide lasing for targets.
All Changes:
•    Slightly moved AA in Nalchik to avoid debris blocking the runway
•    New Reaper Drone ability for providing lasing assistance 
•    Reapers available for Baksan, April, May, October, December, Kashhatau and Vladikavkaz
•    Made some AA/SAM slightly more aggressive 
•    Added FCR / Lima Hellfires to second Apache on all airfields
•    patched an obscure bug that can cause a stack overflow during mission saving (persistence) 
•    changed the default player A-10C loadout: added APKWS (one 7x tube)
•    Added 2 x A-10C (player) to Beslan (with APKWS)
•    Added 2 x player Kiowas to all airfields
 
Enjoy,
-ch

We tried your updated mission yesterday and had tons of fun.
The stackoverflow crash didn't reappear.

If you are interested in feedback, I have a couple of suggestions/fixes:
1. AI CAP:
-F-15s blue are armed with 4 aim9 only. Is this international? This way they will die to nearly any potential threat.

-F-18s
Equipped with a Datalink pod. Not necessary for an A2A load out. I would rather give them a fuel tank on the center station.

2. StopGap
It is a cool feature, but I would like to disable it on my end due to hardware limitations. I set the corresponding trigger zone to no (or false, can't remember) acc. to the manual, but they still spawned.
There were also blue planes on red bases and spawning into an aircraft led to its destruction in the first place.
Might be a screw up on my end though. I'll have to recheck.

3. I really like the Idea of sending two Cobras and a Chinook to capture objectives. The Cobras are definitely underperforming with their TOW missiles though. The enemy has Hellfire Cobras and I think I will adjust the blue ones to match their loadout or exchange them with something that actually can score a couple of kills.

They also tend to fly constantly to the same occupied objectives and get ripped apart with the CH47 going in first. That is most probably just DCS AI logic that you can't change for now. Maybe there is the possibility to first send in the Cobras and only in the case that they successfully cleared the objective, the Chinook will follow with a couple of minutes delay in between.


4. Feature request/suggestion
Add an additional SAM Upgrade for Nalchik with NASAMS for example. Im ok with it being more expensive and having to safe your credits for it, but the Rolands just die instantly to enemy SU34 KH31 spam.

5. Feature Request:
Regular Blue ground assaults or capture convoy that you can support with Apaches or the A10. Either purchasable or spawned by the Commander.
Way slower than the air assault, but more robust with tanks and SHORAD

6. Bug?
Some radio contacts on the blue side seem to speak Russian for some reason. I'll try to figure out which one the next time I play it.

7. Idea:
Maybe enable CSAR for red pilots?
Rescuing them could reveal random enemy positions on the map with a map marker for example. Or alternatively all units at a random objective or the objective they took off from.


Final words:
I already love your mission the way it is. I can tweak some minor points on my side like the AI loadout, but I'll have to redo it with every patch, so it would be cool to see it in the mission by default some day. (unless the current loadout is intentionally chosen the way it is.)
All the other points are definitely just a nice to have from my perspective, but your milage may vary.

[cfrag]

Thank you so much for the feedback!

10 hours ago, mcfleck said:

1. AI CAP:
-F-15s blue are armed with 4 aim9 only. Is this international? This way they will die to nearly any potential threat.

It's a balancing issue I'm still trying to figure out. Those eagles can go to town on the enemy, and I need to fine-tune this more.

 

10 hours ago, mcfleck said:

2. StopGap
It is a cool feature, but I would like to disable it on my end due to hardware limitations. I set the corresponding trigger zone to no (or false, can't remember) acc. to the manual, but they still spawned.

That should definitely not happen. Can I trouble you to double-check that the triggerZone that you are changing is named "stopGapConfig", and change the "onStart" attribute to "no" (it's currently at "yes")

If all else fails, simply delete the DOSCRIPT(stopGap) action ion the STARTUP trigger 

 

11 hours ago, mcfleck said:

There were also blue planes on red bases and spawning into an aircraft led to its destruction in the first place.

That should NOT happen. If it does, there's something decidedly wrong with another module, called "ssbClient" that disallows blue aircraft to spawn on red bases and vice versa. Perhaps you can revert to a fresh copy of expansion? 

 

10 hours ago, mcfleck said:

The Cobras are definitely underperforming with their TOW missiles though.

Indeed. Another balancing issue. It's almost infuriating how bad the Cobras perform in general. I'll look into more, thanks!

 

10 hours ago, mcfleck said:

4. Feature request/suggestion
Add an additional SAM Upgrade for Nalchik with NASAMS for example.

I'll experiment with it. Maybe I can even randomize it or make it a difficulty setting.

10 hours ago, mcfleck said:

5. Feature Request:
Regular Blue ground assaults or capture convoy that you can support with Apaches or the A10.

That one (convoys) I'm still developing, and it ties in with my plans for some warehouse mechanics. I still have to figure out a lot of the details, though.

 

11 hours ago, mcfleck said:

6. Bug?
Some radio contacts on the blue side seem to speak Russian for some reason.

Yeah. I heard about that as well, and it seems to me this is DCS at its finest. I wasn't able to reproduce that. If you have more details, please let me know so I can fix that.

11 hours ago, mcfleck said:

enable CSAR for red pilots?

Uh. I've toyed with that idea. When you get close to an M4 enemy soldier and you are in a helicopter, these units often snipe you one-shot to the head at 1 mile. Instead I'm now thinking about neutral high-value VIP that have been down over the conflict zone, and if you secure them, you get a significant influx of cash.  

Thank you so much for the great feedback!

-ch

[Retnek]

Cfrag - I (we?) have a problem starting "Expansion 1.3" on a dedicated DCS-server. There is no "DCS-SimpleSlotBlock" by Ciribob active on that server. Researching the problem DCS-client and DCS-server were set to "plain vanilla" except the persistence settings in "MissionScripting.lua".

For my setting given above your "leight-weight-slot-block-solution" results in helos crashing at spawn directly at the platform. Like they are dropped from 1 m height to the ground. Gazelle looses main-rotors-blades, Huey breaks skids, Hip fatally damaged etc.  Changed the trigger-zone "stopGapConfig" from "onStart = yes" to "no" cures the problem for me. It SEEMS the leight-weight-simple-block-workaround is not perfect yet. I think I studied your "README or die.pdf" and the forum here thoroughly - it finally resulted in the workaround "onStart=no". But I tend to sloppy reading, could you please check?

BTW: For me (with some serious nerdy realism-rivet-counter-affinities) platforms with a dense population of aircraft every 20 m definitely don't look like a front-line-airfield. That's appropriate for a Nevada training range. But front-line-spawns need 100 m spacing minimum or you'll get a serious problem with the stations commander. No serious critics intended, please! It's cosmetics and up to the artist.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Retnek

[cfrag]

10 minutes ago, Retnek said:

For my setting given above your "leight-weight-slot-block-solution" results in helos crashing at spawn directly at the platform. Like they are dropped from 1 m height to the ground.

That issue is caused by the small "stopGap GUI" script not running on the server (only the server needs that, it's a small work-around for a DCS synchronization issue). The alternative is to completely turn off stopGap. If all fails, remove the DOSCRIPT (stopgap) action from the ATSTART trigger rule. It has nothing to to with slot blocking, so you are good there.

[Retnek]

5 minutes ago, cfrag said:

That issue is caused by the small "stopGap GUI" script not running on the server (only the server needs that, it's a small work-around for a DCS synchronization issue). The alternative is to completely turn off stopGap. If all fails, remove the DOSCRIPT (stopgap) action from the ATSTART trigger rule. It has nothing to to with slot blocking, so you are good there.

Ok, I see. for me "onStart=no" does the trick and airfield is war-like empty, too. Thanks!

Sloppy writing in the first post - just for the records: I checked starting the mission-file in single-player-mode, naturally. Here everything works fine, so it's dedicated-server-only.

[cfrag]

Just now, Retnek said:

Here everything works fine, so it's dedicated-server-only.

Naw, I'm a tricky little bastard. I specifically disabled stopgap for FARPS on single-player. That's a stopGap built in feature I exploited  

But when you go multiplayer, you must have stopGap GUI run on the server.

 

Edited June 8, 2024 by cfrag

[Retnek]

35 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Naw, I'm a tricky little bastard. I specifically disabled stopgap for FARPS on single-player. That's a stopGap built in feature I exploited  

But when you go multiplayer, you must have stopGap GUI run on the server.

I see, thx again. I bet you already adapted these lines from your readme.pdf accordingly:

"As of version 1.2 of Expansion, this is merely recommended for a better user
experience. If SSB is not running on the server, Expansion now supplies its own lightweight
mission-based (instead of server-based) SSB-service."

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, Retnek said:

"As of version 1.2 of Expansion, this is merely recommended for a better user
experience. If SSB is not running on the server, Expansion now supplies its own lightweight
mission-based (instead of server-based) SSB-service."

Maybe I should make that a bit clearer: SSB is a method to block player slots. Expansion has a script that blocks slots for aircrafts on fields that belong to the enemy. It uses the "SSB Protocol" (a convention to pass values to the server) to accomplish this. SSB used to only work in multiplayer and required the SSB script to run on the server. Expansion now has a way to make this work in both multiplayer and single-player; it no longer requires the SSB script to be installed and run on the server.
Above note is correct: you no longer have to run SSB on the serve to use the SSB player slot-blocking ability.

In a completely unrelated vein, stopGap places static aircraft where unused player aircraft are located on the map. For multi-player, stopGap requires that the "stopGap GUI" script runs on the server. That avoids a synchronizing issue in DCS.

In other words, SSB is something cool, stopGap is something entirely different. But both are cool.  

Edited June 8, 2024 by cfrag

[idenwen]

I accidentially stumbled over you mission and it's an instant favorite! 

On the "Rotorheads" server there is a script for the Gazelle so it can call in artillery strikes. Would be nice to have this functionality (maybe for $ per call in to limit it's spam-abilitie) for Gazelle/Kiowa or even all Planes that can (laser) designate a target.

 

[Chicki]

So, SSB no longer needed on server.  If we have it installed, should we delete it?  Or does it not hurt to let it stay?

 

Well, after re reading the manual, I would say the mission is supposed to work better if SSB  is installed.  Correct?  One more thing though, I'm flying the Hornet out of Nalchik and when I spawn I seem to be "dropping in" jet dropping from midair I think.  Anyway, seems to mess up my gear.  Nose wheel collapses most of the time but get an alarm always.  Have to do a repair before I can crank(edited for cold start).  I am running mission on my server and have SSB installed.  When I start on the carrier, no problem.  Any thoughts?  Thanks.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Chicki

[cfrag]

11 hours ago, Chicki said:

when I spawn I seem to be "dropping in" jet dropping from midair I think.

To prevent this happening, please run 'stopGap GUI' on the server, or disable stopGap.

 

11 hours ago, idenwen said:

On the "Rotorheads" server there is a script for the Gazelle so it can call in artillery strikes.

I've looked at that script, and that unfortunately only works for the Zelle. I've experimented with marking targets with WP munitions, and then calling in arty on the WP smoke. I'll see if I can add something like this to Expansion. 

[RedeyeStorm]

@cfrag I have a question. I wan't to play your mission solo. Do I start it as a SP mission or as a MP mission?

When I start it as a SP mission the blue aircraft spawn on all the airfields weather I own the place or not. Shutting down stopgap does not seem to work because all the client planes spawn anyway.

 

[cfrag]

4 minutes ago, RedeyeStorm said:

When I start it as a SP mission the blue aircraft spawn on all the airfields weather I own the place or not.

This is definitely not a stopGap issue (stopGap is only 'eye candy', and it asks another script if the aircraft is available). For some reason, the mission seems to think that the airfields where it spawns blue aircraft belong to blue. The job of making player aircraft available only on blue-owned airfields is a script called 'ssbClient', and for some reason it doesn't seem to work with your DCS.

The obvious question (just to make sure): did you modify the mission? Can I trouble you to see if you have the same issue with a fresh download of the miz? That would help me to track top the issue.

Thanks,

-ch

[RedeyeStorm]

I did modify the mission  in the following points:

- changed date to 1972 (want cold war

- changed planetypes, skins and loadouts

- deleted unwanted planes and helicopters. Mostly cliënt planes/helicopters but also the Red KA50's.

 

I don not have SSB installed, may that be it?

Edited June 9, 2024 by RedeyeStorm

[cfrag]

Just now, RedeyeStorm said:

I don not have SSB installed, may that be it?

No, SSB is no longer required. Changing the date or adding/removing aircraft should not change a thing, Expansion was built to be easily modified.

 

... ah, I see you PM'd the miz, thank you, will have a look.

 

[RedeyeStorm]

After some checking out by @cfrag it has been found that it is the mod A4 Skyhawk that is causing my problems. Unfortunatly.

[Retnek]

Hint / Question: the NDB for CSAR don't seem to work. I receive the airfield-NDB in the HIP without a problem. Original mission-file on a dedicated server except trigger-zone "stopGapConfig" from "onStart = yes" to "no". No add-ons or mods.
btw: Is there an option to limit the NDB-frequencies-range to the lower range < 999 kHz to please the Gazelle-pilots (it's ADF is broken anyhow afaik)? And exclude the freq. of the airfield-NDBs, too? Since the NDBs in DCS are a pain in the a.. regularly it's just a nice-to-have.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Retnek