f15e Posted May 5, 2024 Posted May 5, 2024 We have been stuck with the same outdated special effect for many years, please update the fires and explosions to a 2024 standard. Same goes with the visual and physical damage model for playable modules and ai units. We constantly get new modules new terrains but the world feels lifeless, dcs core really needs to progress faster. 5
Northstar98 Posted May 6, 2024 Posted May 6, 2024 While explosions could do with some work (as could smoke and fires) I think the main effect that sorely needs improving are tracers and muzzle flashes. 4 Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk. Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas. System: GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV. Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.
Bosun Posted May 6, 2024 Posted May 6, 2024 Agreed. The lack of a damage model (that is, lack of variation in damage taken) is starting to date the engine. Some modules have it better than others, but the missile explosions and aircraft fires are certainly in need of more detail and variation. A missile hitting an F-14 from any aspect shouldn't result in the same damage every time. We should be seeing the actual frame of the aircraft warped and split, not just the wings fall off. With glancing hits from AAA fire, there are never oil or coolant leaks, or fuel leaks that I've seen. The reason these haven't been priority of course, is that we often shoot things from miles away and never actually see the detail. However, with the advent of more camera controls like the go-pro camera from this last fall, I find my footage is lacking quite a bit, and the immersion is a little gone, when splashing someone up close. I'd also like more visual damage feedback with rough landings. Buddy of mine broke his landing gear on a carrier deck landing. Looking at his model, you'd never know, but he could tell when taxing that the wheel was out. That's something that should be a priority, as changes of aircraft status like that are vital to ascertain how badly damaged you actually are. 2
Czar66 Posted May 6, 2024 Posted May 6, 2024 12 minutes ago, Bosun said: Agreed. The lack of a damage model (that is, lack of variation in damage taken) is starting to date the engine. Some modules have it better than others, but the missile explosions and aircraft fires are certainly in need of more detail and variation. A missile hitting an F-14 from any aspect shouldn't result in the same damage every time. We should be seeing the actual frame of the aircraft warped and split, not just the wings fall off. With glancing hits from AAA fire, there are never oil or coolant leaks, or fuel leaks that I've seen. The reason these haven't been priority of course, is that we often shoot things from miles away and never actually see the detail. However, with the advent of more camera controls like the go-pro camera from this last fall, I find my footage is lacking quite a bit, and the immersion is a little gone, when splashing someone up close. I'd also like more visual damage feedback with rough landings. Buddy of mine broke his landing gear on a carrier deck landing. Looking at his model, you'd never know, but he could tell when taxing that the wheel was out. That's something that should be a priority, as changes of aircraft status like that are vital to ascertain how badly damaged you actually are. Warping of the wings is per module. F-15E from Razbam has it. F-14 damage model is under development from Heatblur: https://trello.com/c/vKfivfiW/8-visual-damage-model-improvements I've seen a myriad of different damage from the same ordinance on the Warthog, Viper and Hornet. Although A-A missiles seems to be an automatic pilot kill. Yesterday I had rear fuselage damage + rudder blown off + Elevator shredded by a Sa-13. Close to another shot down I experienced where the rudder was affected: Uncomanded and increasing yaw and roll rate towards an uncontrolled flight with the pilot blacking out for a few seconds. I also had fuselage damage on the viper where it only damaged the fuel tanks inducing a leak that became an emergency shortly after. There are granularity to the damage model on all FF modules. Maybe the ordinance explosion simulation is under modeled as well. 1
Bosun Posted May 10, 2024 Posted May 10, 2024 On 5/6/2024 at 10:12 AM, Czar66 said: Warping of the wings is per module. F-15E from Razbam has it. F-14 damage model is under development from Heatblur: https://trello.com/c/vKfivfiW/8-visual-damage-model-improvements I've seen a myriad of different damage from the same ordinance on the Warthog, Viper and Hornet. Although A-A missiles seems to be an automatic pilot kill. Yesterday I had rear fuselage damage + rudder blown off + Elevator shredded by a Sa-13. Close to another shot down I experienced where the rudder was affected: Uncomanded and increasing yaw and roll rate towards an uncontrolled flight with the pilot blacking out for a few seconds. I also had fuselage damage on the viper where it only damaged the fuel tanks inducing a leak that became an emergency shortly after. There are granularity to the damage model on all FF modules. Maybe the ordinance explosion simulation is under modeled as well. The Heatblur Roadmap is terribly outdated, not sure anything in that planned section is still accurate. This isn't to say that there are no damage models at all, but that there ought to be more variation. When I shoot down aircraft in some other sims, 1. The tail sections are ripped out 2. Oil/Fuel/Water is leaked 3. Wings have different breaks or seams depending on where on the wing got hit, and how much 4. Cockpit glass is shattered 5. tailfins are shredded (visibily) When I shoot modern aircraft in DCS, regardless of module, I get only: 1. Aileron might come off, full wing still intact 2. One or both wings come off completely (all or nothing), no visible destruction to the body (bullet holes, but that's it) 3. Bullet hole or shrapnel damage holes visible on some of the fuselage Also, fire effects in other sims are really well placed and animated to come from inside the fuselages or engine nacelles, to look like flames escaping the craft. In DCS - the flames are static sprites that are a set length and if they happen in the engine, they look great. If they happen on a wing, it looks like a long, oblong cylinder of fire where the wing used to be, and not flames that are escaping from the cut-off edge of the wing itself. They've done a great job in the WWII section creating more dynamic damages. I'd like to see, when a Mig-21 gets hit center-fuselage with a missle, the cockpit glass be blown out in 1st person, or the fuselage be ripped in half, or various stages of the fuselage being intact besides just 'wings on' or 'wings off'. That's all. Take this for example, from the recent F-4 video, linked at the timestamp of a Mig-21 kill: That visual needs updating. That missle strike is woefully cartoonish against the fidelity of the rest of the world in the video. I think it is well worth ED's time to pursue updating the modules and effects and make sure that certain standards are mandated for 3rd-party developers in designing their damage models. Also, I think it is worth ED updating old modules to a new and modern standard. Where the module creators no longer maintain those, I think it should be ED that has rights to maintain it for them if the 3rd party vacates that role. 2
Czar66 Posted May 10, 2024 Posted May 10, 2024 1 minute ago, Bosun said: The Heatblur Roadmap is terribly outdated, not sure anything in that planned section is still accurate. This isn't to say that there are no damage models at all, but that there ought to be more variation. When I shoot down aircraft in some other sims, 1. The tail sections are ripped out 2. Oil/Fuel/Water is leaked 3. Wings have different breaks or seams depending on where on the wing got hit, and how much 4. Cockpit glass is shattered 5. tailfins are shredded (visibily) When I shoot modern aircraft in DCS, regardless of module, I get only: 1. Aileron might come off, full wing still intact 2. One or both wings come off completely (all or nothing), no visible destruction to the body (bullet holes, but that's it) 3. Bullet hole or shrapnel damage holes visible on some of the fuselage Also, fire effects in other sims are really well placed and animated to come from inside the fuselages or engine nacelles, to look like flames escaping the craft. In DCS - the flames are static sprites that are a set length and if they happen in the engine, they look great. If they happen on a wing, it looks like a long, oblong cylinder of fire where the wing used to be, and not flames that are escaping from the cut-off edge of the wing itself. They've done a great job in the WWII section creating more dynamic damages. I'd like to see, when a Mig-21 gets hit center-fuselage with a missle, the cockpit glass be blown out in 1st person, or the fuselage be ripped in half, or various stages of the fuselage being intact besides just 'wings on' or 'wings off'. That's all. Damage model in higher fidelity in DCS was never proper in my opinion too. That's why I didn't invest in warbirds beyond the P-51 when it launched. Other renown WWII sim out there is far better. DCS damage model is somewhat decent in some areas? Kind of yes. A-10C also has a myriad of systems that can be damaged by ground fire and you never know what to expect. I was trying to correct the quote: "The lack of a damage model (that is, lack of variation in damage taken) is starting to date the engine." This is false.
Czar66 Posted May 13, 2024 Posted May 13, 2024 (edited) On 5/6/2024 at 2:12 PM, Czar66 said: Yesterday I had rear fuselage damage + rudder blown off + Elevator shredded by a Sa-13. Close to another shot down I experienced where the rudder was affected: Uncomanded and increasing yaw and roll rate towards an uncontrolled flight with the pilot blacking out for a few seconds. Edited May 13, 2024 by Czar66
Bosun Posted May 13, 2024 Posted May 13, 2024 The plane will have control effects, yes, and it will have a decal (standard to every hit of the same magnitude) applied in the same area and orientation as the the general location of the hit every time. Once you're past the threshold of 'decal-applied' visible damage, the model is very simply 'wings on, or wings off'. Some models, like the Mig21 above, have a wingtip-off addition to the modeling, but the flames that come out of it make it look rather comical. That is because there is a single fire-sprite that gets generated for every situation, with a few noted exceptions. There's no variation on a small leak causing a fire, versus the entire engine flaming, so the wingtip (in the Mig21 above) has the same fire sprite for the wingtip being blown off, as it would for its engine catching fire. As for the oil leaks - yes, some planes have that damage effect, but it then creates a very puffy, very fluffy cloud effect that is remniscent of the early 2000s smoke effects. We know the engine can handle better, because effects like contrailing actually seem pretty great. Finally - fuselage damage does happen - in decal-form (a stamp-texture of bullet holes or worn hull applied). What doesn't happen is the plane being literally ripped in two, or at least a chunk taken out the back of it like a missile just exploded there or something. The main issue with the damage model is that you can have a missile hit dead center fuselage and the wings just fall off like the missile hit a 'jettison' button. I just think, for how beautiful this game is, our modeling of hits could use some work to be equally beautiful, is all. Where's the Su27 that has a rear right stab and back of the right wing with part of the right tail fin gone from a 'close' missile detonation? Or the the F16 that is simply vaporized into 4 or 5 pieces by a SAM strike, the back half of the fuselage and front half being ripped apart. 2
f15e Posted May 18, 2024 Author Posted May 18, 2024 On 5/13/2024 at 5:54 PM, Bosun said: The plane will have control effects, yes, and it will have a decal (standard to every hit of the same magnitude) applied in the same area and orientation as the the general location of the hit every time. Once you're past the threshold of 'decal-applied' visible damage, the model is very simply 'wings on, or wings off'. Some models, like the Mig21 above, have a wingtip-off addition to the modeling, but the flames that come out of it make it look rather comical. That is because there is a single fire-sprite that gets generated for every situation, with a few noted exceptions. There's no variation on a small leak causing a fire, versus the entire engine flaming, so the wingtip (in the Mig21 above) has the same fire sprite for the wingtip being blown off, as it would for its engine catching fire. As for the oil leaks - yes, some planes have that damage effect, but it then creates a very puffy, very fluffy cloud effect that is remniscent of the early 2000s smoke effects. We know the engine can handle better, because effects like contrailing actually seem pretty great. Finally - fuselage damage does happen - in decal-form (a stamp-texture of bullet holes or worn hull applied). What doesn't happen is the plane being literally ripped in two, or at least a chunk taken out the back of it like a missile just exploded there or something. The main issue with the damage model is that you can have a missile hit dead center fuselage and the wings just fall off like the missile hit a 'jettison' button. I just think, for how beautiful this game is, our modeling of hits could use some work to be equally beautiful, is all. Where's the Su27 that has a rear right stab and back of the right wing with part of the right tail fin gone from a 'close' missile detonation? Or the the F16 that is simply vaporized into 4 or 5 pieces by a SAM strike, the back half of the fuselage and front half being ripped apart. I think to fix the damage model from missile explosions dcs would need to model proximity fuze way more realistically
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