fixed Receive RFHO in FCR-equipped helicopter while FCR is powered off

[JabbyJabara]

Hello,

Scenario: Two apaches, one without an FCR or FCR switched off and the other Apache has FCR on and currently scanning target area. The lead apache with the FCR should be able to RF handover to wingman without FCR and the wingman should be able to engage.

Problem/Bug: It is impossible from either the CPG seat or Pilot to engage a RF Handover target without being able to Sight Select Switch (SSS) FCR mode. The SSS FCR mode is only available if the FCR is installed and on the wingman apache. 

According to manual, US Doctrine, Apache tactics and Matt Wagner on his video both in the description and in the video you describe the ability for a wingman to engage without an FCR however in the video at timestamp 5m 51s - your wingman clearly has a dome.

Solution: This needs to be stated by either Matt Wagner or the DCS flight manual of the Apache that you cannot engage a radar handoff with a RF hellfire without the FCR on and installed because the FCR SSS must be available.

[LorenLuke]

1 hour ago, JabbyJabara said:

Solution: This needs to be stated by either Matt Wagner or the DCS flight manual of the Apache that you cannot engage a radar handoff with a RF hellfire without the FCR on and installed because the FCR SSS must be available.

You can, in fact, Sight Select the FCR in a non-FCR aircraft. The key thing is that the FCR is only available as a Sight Select AFTER receiving and accepting an RFHO message from another helo. 

[Lord Vader]

Hi @JabbyJabara

Like @LorenLukementioned, are you actioning the sight to FCR after accepting the targets from datalink? If so, it should work. 

It seems you need to review the procedures.

[JabbyJabara]

3 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

Hi @JabbyJabara

Like @LorenLukementioned, are you actioning the sight to FCR after accepting the targets from datalink? If so, it should work. 

It seems you need to review the procedures.

Tried every which way several times and it does not work. I received hand off and made the inputs as both pilot and CPG.

I'll need to see a track of the methods both @LorenLuke and @Lord Vader state because at this current build it does not work as advertised.

The track will need to show one apache without an FCR and one with.

I will create another track file and demonstrate if need be.

[Lord Vader]

@JabbyJabara

Please do try again with the suggestions given, and if the problem persists do share that track for our analysis.

Thanks.  

[LorenLuke]

6 hours ago, JabbyJabara said:

Tried every which way several times and it does not work. I received hand off and made the inputs as both pilot and CPG.

I'll need to see a track of the methods both @LorenLuke and @Lord Vader state because at this current build it does not work as advertised.

The track will need to show one apache without an FCR and one with.

I will create another track file and demonstrate if need be.

ApacheTest(FCRPerspective).trkApacheTest(NoFCRPerspective).trk

[JabbyJabara]

@Lord Vader @LorenLuke 

I'll have a look at the tracks and try again. If it still doesn't work I'll recreate a shorter track. 

 

[JabbyJabara]

@LorenLuke @Lord Vader,

I resolved the issue, your methods are correct - the issue was that the method does not work if both aircraft have FCR installed, and if one of them switches their FCR dome off and receives a RF Handover it is not possible to switch to FCR. Track included

With the FCR not installed on one of two apaches - the method above works as intended. I do not know if this is intended operating of the system or a bug but it is something for an SME of the Apache rotary craft to confirm.

Tested Scenarios;

Two apaches hot start from ground, one FCR installed, one apache with no FCR installed. RF Handover works as described by LukeLoren with the Apache receiving a radar contact and firing RF hellfire

Two apaches hot start, both have FCR installed, one has FCR switched off and MMA Pinned, RF Handover does not work with method described above

Two Apaches cold start, one with FCR and one without FCR installed, same test RF Handover works as described above

Thank you for helping me to clarify my troubles

apache rf handoff test-20240514-150024.trk apache rf handoff test-20240514-143959.trk

[Lord Vader]

Hi again @JabbyJabara

Thanks for bringing this to us. We appreciate when people test these very specific conditions that certainly help us create the best possible simulation.

First of all, from a logic standpoint, all equipment available on the aircraft is there to be used by the crew. If an FCR mast is mounted on an AH-64D, it makes little sense not to use it. We can't think of a situation where the pilots would deliberately turn off the FCR and rely on a third party provider for their targets when they can do it themselves. 

Now, you can make a point the mast can be damaged and rendered inoperable, but then we would be talking about non-normal procedures which, right now, are not really our main priority with this module. 

This means that, in the future, we may review the functionality of RFHO operation with an inoperable or damaged FCR, but it's currently not a priority. If you wish to take advantage of the datalink sharing, then please operate the system as it was designed (and that you already agreed is working correctly), with a FCR equipped aircraft as donor and non-FCR wingmen as recipients.

Thanks for understanding.