Elevator trim too aggressive

[FusRoPotato]

14 hours ago, Hunter2.1 said:

Do the developers recognize the operation of the stick in the neutral position as incorrect? or is it being ignored? I don't see about any response from the developers on this issue.

Shortly after release, there was some criticism about this issue that got shot down pretty quickly. They firmly stated that there would be no adjustments or changes to it. It's understandable they'd take pride in going the extra mile to model stick force responses, so they were probably a bit offended.

We've seen a few comments since from the team claiming that SMEs and internal testers feel the stick behavior is accurate, but there's been no direct support or evidence from those individuals. In fact, we've had the opposite from a few Phantom pilots who've noticed the problem and spoken up about it.

They have not yet cleanly demonstrated that the understand the issue. We've tried YT videos showing the motion, detailed graphs, and data logs that compare force-feedback (FFB) to non-FFB sticks, but it seems to keep being met with deflection to other systems or factors such as trim duration. However, the trim rate isn't the issue. It's modeled correctly.

Quote

"When crusing at 350kts, check out the external view. A single click of pitch trim causes the nose to wobble quite excessively. "

It’s been explained that this isn’t a stick modeling issue, but rather a virtual pilot issue. The threaded-rod trim actuator creates a smooth, linear change in stick force and doesn’t interact with the bellows or anything else in a way that would cause bouncing. The stick shakes because the reaction force from the pilot’s arm isn’t being modeled accurately enough for users without a force-feedback stick. This results in unnatural oscillations that the pilot can’t easily correct for. There’s no rate dampening, transient dampening, or anticipatory control algorithms in place to produce a flight control result that is similar to FFB.

The unspoken reality in contention here is that stick force modeling is only one part of a two part problem, and that the 2nd part is missing. That is sometimes the unfortunate risk of trying to go the extra mile in uncharted territory. It doesn't always produce a better result and requires more work.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2024 by FusRoPotato

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

A real-life pilot has a much better grasp on what the aircraft is doing (and often about to do), because they can 'feel' the aircraft and thus react (proactively) a lot quicker than us armchair pilots - since we have to wait until we 'see' the effect. But even we can learn to anticipate certain behaviours given enough virtual flight hours and muscle memory  

[kablamoman]

7 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

But even we can learn to anticipate certain behaviours given enough virtual flight hours and muscle memory

Except when it involves holding the stick firmly in Heatblur's F-4E, apparently. Can't do much with the limp noodle arms they've given us all.

Edited October 7, 2024 by kablamoman

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, kablamoman said:

holding the stick firmly

Victory said the F-4E both IRL and in DCS is a fingertip aircraft.