GregP Posted June 6, 2024 Posted June 6, 2024 (edited) Edit: figured out my issue, deleted. Edited June 6, 2024 by GregP
GregP Posted June 6, 2024 Posted June 6, 2024 (edited) Great discussion here and I would love to see some of this info from @Zabuzard make it into the manual so that other users can also understand 1) the rationale for adding the CAGE and CAA modes, 2) why they work the way they do (as they were grafted on to an existing stick/throttle button layout) and 3) how they differ from what users may have experienced in other aircraft. Speaking at least for myself, not only do I find these explanations very interesting as I'm learning a new aircraft, but also crucial for understanding the logic behind why things work the way they do--and to me that seems like perfect contextual information to include in the manual in addition to the explanations of the functionality alone. Edited June 6, 2024 by GregP 1
r4y30n Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 The offset vertical scan definitely seems useful when in flat turns with vertical separation. That said, I can see why the F-14 ACM modes evolved the way they did.
SgtPappy Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 (edited) On 5/25/2024 at 4:14 AM, Zabuzard said: CAGE mode, activated by the button on the throttle, is the pilots way to instantly command the aircraft into close range air to air mode. They have added this upon pilot feedback in Vietnam, where they where perhaps doing a ground attack and then suddenly got jumped by a Mig. The complaint was that they do not want to take hands of their throttle and stick, having to select all the modes, weapons, arming,... So they got the CAGE button which just overrides everything, sets you up for a boresight radar close range fight, automatically selecting the weapons and the HUD mode. In CAGE mode, you can put a target on your pipper and then the WSO can lock it up (Jester Context action). From CAGE mode, you can further enter a vertical scan mode with automatic locking, called CAA. The corridor used by CAA can be shifted left/right or put center. This is confusingly done by the weapon selection (Pinky Hat - Gun/Heat/Radar). CAA is left by clicking the button again. CAGE is left by putting the weapon selector in or out of B. In either mode, Jester can also leave it by pressing the A2A button (Jester double click context action). Just a bit off topic, but do you happen to know what came before CAA? My understanding is it went like this: 1) F-4B/C/D - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and then request WSO/RIO to lock 2) F-4E with cockpit TO 556 mod - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and pilot presses air refuel button to lock on OR can request WSO/RIO to lock 3) F-4E with CAA mod to APQ-120 - what we have in DCS now Is (2) correct? I haven't been able to find a clear source. Edited June 7, 2024 by SgtPappy
Smyth Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 3 hours ago, SgtPappy said: Just a bit off topic, but do you happen to know what came before CAA? My understanding is it went like this: 1) F-4B/C/D - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and then request WSO/RIO to lock 2) F-4E with cockpit TO 556 mod - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and pilot presses air refuel button to lock on OR can request WSO/RIO to lock 3) F-4E with CAA mod to APQ-120 - what we have in DCS now Is (2) correct? I haven't been able to find a clear source. Almost. 1) correct originally, but at least -B and -D got boresight auto-acquisition later, separate from the cage mode 2) correct, I've found a couple of manuals that confirm this. note that F-4E pre-556 modification also had auto-acquisition same as F-4D (activated by a switch on the throttle) 3) mostly correct. CAA vertical scan came with digital LRU-1 modification of APQ-120 (along with programmable launch envelope) in late 70s. 'Our' CAA with the selectable corridors is from the 80s software upgrade "OFP005". I am still convinced most players would do better with the pre-OFP005 CAA mode. Just point the plane and press the button without switching back and forth to the wrong weapons. Would be a nice 'special options' check box. 4 1 More or less equal than others
SgtPappy Posted June 7, 2024 Posted June 7, 2024 7 hours ago, Smyth said: Almost. 1) correct originally, but at least -B and -D got boresight auto-acquisition later, separate from the cage mode 2) correct, I've found a couple of manuals that confirm this. note that F-4E pre-556 modification also had auto-acquisition same as F-4D (activated by a switch on the throttle) 3) mostly correct. CAA vertical scan came with digital LRU-1 modification of APQ-120 (along with programmable launch envelope) in late 70s. 'Our' CAA with the selectable corridors is from the 80s software upgrade "OFP005". I am still convinced most players would do better with the pre-OFP005 CAA mode. Just point the plane and press the button without switching back and forth to the wrong weapons. Would be a nice 'special options' check box. Thanks for the info. I think I would have preferred having the quicker boresight auto-lock as well as I'm having a tough time getting the current system to lock repeatably. Still, what we have now can come in handy in some situations.
WinOrLose Posted June 8, 2024 Posted June 8, 2024 On 6/5/2024 at 9:25 PM, Zabuzard said: I guess it depends a bit on how well you communicate with the WSO. His job is to keep the cursor on the return and follow it. Wait for the Pilot to say "now" (target within 5° cone, i. e. on pipper) and then the WSO just needs to press trigger and the target is locked. Jester is pretty good at it from my experience and can do it as I pull the reticle through the target even. But yeah, CAGE/BORESIGHT isn't a mode for while you are already in a heavy dogfight but for the moment right before the fight begins, when you acquired visual on a target that is about to start a fight with you. During the turnfight, CAA is whats generally used. Do you need to be in cage to initiate CAA or are they independent of each other. On 6/7/2024 at 3:25 AM, SgtPappy said: Just a bit off topic, but do you happen to know what came before CAA? My understanding is it went like this: 1) F-4B/C/D - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and then request WSO/RIO to lock 2) F-4E with cockpit TO 556 mod - Pilot commands cage mode, puts bandit near reticle and pilot presses air refuel button to lock on OR can request WSO/RIO to lock 3) F-4E with CAA mod to APQ-120 - what we have in DCS now Is (2) correct? I haven't been able to find a clear source. Is it the emergency refuel disconnect or the refuel button?
Grundar Posted June 8, 2024 Posted June 8, 2024 8 minutes ago, WinOrLose said: Do you need to be in cage to initiate CAA or are they independent of each other. Is it the emergency refuel disconnect or the refuel button? CAA is a subset of CAGE mode so you are required to be in CAGE first. So enter CAGE and then press the nose wheel steering button to enter CAA. The button they are referring to might be the ARR (Air Refueling Release located on the stick) which is held to UNCAGE the seeker. 1 1
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