engine warmup

[boapiu]

I am reading a book about a spitfire pilot during WW2 and noticed that it seems common practice for ground crews to warm up the engines at the start of the day. Could this be implemented in the campaign? I ask because I have yet to get my spitfire warmed up in time to meet the planned taxi time in the briefing. It would seem in keeping with historical events to man aircraft and find the engine already warmed up.

And I want to mention that I am enjoying the campaign. Great work.

[Reflected]

I wish, but there is no such option in DCS. Enjoy the campaign!

[Screamadelica]

Following the correct engine warm up procedure makes it impossible to meet the taxi and take off times.

Result is that the squadron don't circle the airfield to form up before setting course and you have  to chase them across the channel before being able to join up.

Not an issue if you are in the first few aircraft taking off, but if you are at the back of the queue I sometimes don't catch up until over France.

Should the engine warmup be ignored in order to meet the correct timings, resulting in bad things according to the ground crew, or would it be possible to alter the timings to allow for correct engine warm up procedures?

Great campaign Reflected, loving it!

Nine sorties flown so far, no replays and five kills. Just hoping I can make it to the end in one piece.

Cheers, Scream.

[Reflected]

Never had issues with warmup. Try to push your rpm to make it faster, use oil dilution if needed to keep it below 120

[Screamadelica]

Thanks Reflected.

Just hope the mechanics don't get cranky about not sticking to 1200 RPM on warmup. 

I'll give it a try next mission.

Oil dilution definitely needed for those winter start ups if pushing the RPMs.

Awesome campaign, wish we had more like this one.

Cheers, Scream

[pierscockey]

On 9/9/2024 at 11:35 AM, Reflected said:

Never had issues with warmup. Try to push your rpm to make it faster, use oil dilution if needed to keep it below 120

Hi Reflected.

Oil dilution doesn't appear to work anymore.  Don't know if you've tried it recently?  I'm currently flying your Beware campaign (excellent, btw - thanks!) and oil dilution would come in very handy!  Really need to push the warmup and taxi before 60c water temp in order not to be left too far behind.

Regarding the OP - I'm also reading a Spitfire book (First Light) and it appears warm up and checks were indeed done by the group crew.  Is starting the mission with the engine running and then all controls set to cold and dark by a script a possibility?  I don't know if a cut scene could be played whilst that happens (your genius with these amazes me!).

Edited November 1, 2024 by pierscockey

[Reflected]

11 minutes ago, pierscockey said:

Hi Reflected.

Oil dilution doesn't appear to work anymore.  Don't know if you've tried it recently?  I'm currently flying your Beware campaign (excellent, btw - thanks!) and oil dilution would come in very handy!  Really need to push the warmup and taxi before 60c water temp in order not to be left too far behind.

Regarding the OP - I'm also reading a Spitfire book (First Light) and it appears warm up and checks were indeed done by the group crew.  Is starting the mission with the engine running and then all controls set to cold and dark by a script a possibility?  I don't know if a cut scene could be played whilst that happens (your genius with these amazes me!).

 

No there is no such script. You need to ask ED, I already have. For me oil dilution is still working though

[Columbar]

On 9/10/2024 at 11:05 AM, Screamadelica said:

Thanks Reflected.

Just hope the mechanics don't get cranky about not sticking to 1200 RPM on warmup. 

I'll give it a try next mission.

Oil dilution definitely needed for those winter start ups if pushing the RPMs.

Awesome campaign, wish we had more like this one.

Cheers, Scream

I´ve finished campaign two days ago, and my experience is:

1) don´t push too much RPM during warm up period. Ideally not above 1200 - 1300 rpm. If you warm up engine wildly your engine will broke after 40 - 50 minutes. You can hear it sort after start-it sounds like iron filings in the engine sound. (it looks like engine damage during improper warm-up is modeled) If you hear this you will probably not make it back from France. It happened to me twice. 

2) Time for engine warm-up is not sufficient. Actually that's the biggest problem of this campaign. I think the in patrol mission over the Channel is only 2 minutes to start the Spitfire... OMG... In most of the missions almost whole way into area of operations I was chasing my squadron which very often disappers in clouds and then I fly alone (praying to find them) or have to RTB... It was really annoying. But this is problem of all Reflected WW2 Campaigns which I played so far.

3) for me oil dilution button does not work too. I can´t open cover of this button if I remember correctly.

To Reflected: Your campaigns are best and it is pity that such a small omission ruins the whole impression of an otherwise precise and excellent work. Please give us three or four minutes longer time to warm-up engine and we will be in air as briefed  

Edited November 6, 2024 by Columbar

[Reflected]

1 hour ago, Columbar said:

I´ve finished campaign two days ago, and my experience is:

1) don´t push too much RPM during warm up period. Ideally not above 1200 - 1300 rpm. If you warm up engine wildly your engine will broke after 40 - 50 minutes. You can hear it sort after start-it sounds like iron filings in the engine sound. (it looks like engine damage during improper warm-up is modeled) If you hear this you will probably not make it back from France. It happened to me twice. 

2) Time for engine warm-up is not sufficient. Actually that's the biggest problem of this campaign. I think the in patrol mission over the Channel is only 2 minutes to start the Spitfire... OMG... In most of the missions almost whole way into area of operations I was chasing my squadron which very often disappers in clouds and then I fly alone (praying to find them) or have to RTB... It was really annoying. But this is problem of all Reflected WW2 Campaigns which I played so far.

3) for me oil dilution button does not work too. I can´t open cover of this button if I remember correctly.

To Reflected: Your campaigns are best and it is pity that such a small omission ruins the whole impression of an otherwise precise and excellent work. Please give us three or four minutes longer time to warm-up engine and we will be in air as briefed  

 

For me oil dilution seems to be working ,you just have to keep the button depressed for long enough to take effect. I never had any problems warming up the engine and I've played these missions at least 50 times each. But I'll see if I can extend the timings without having to redo all briefing and kneeboard visuals.

In none of the missions do you have only 2 minutes, something is definitely wrong there. Can you give me an exact mission number please?

In all missions you have approximately 10 minutes to start up and take off. That should be plenty enough. If not, I recommend practicing startups and warmups in simple cold start missions.

 

EDIT: I just checked, it's not possible to change the mission timings. Either I'd need to redo all visuals because of it, and/or it would open up more breaking possibilities if the player warms up normally. What you can help me with is to campaign with ED for a 'warmed up engine' option. I've already asked them but that's just me.

Edited November 6, 2024 by Reflected

[Reflected]

Just out of curiosity I flew Mission 8 today. The coldest one in the middle of January. 5 minutes from mission start (not engine start) my temps were good for takeoff - I could have taxied even earlier. 

So just keep that oil dilution button depressed for a minute, and as pressure drops, keep increasing the boost.

[Columbar]

thanks for quick reply.

it is sorite 14 (last mission with only six aircraft). In kneeboard there is S/E 18:08 ant T/O 18:10. I played it again today and time when spawn in aircraft cockpit clock shows 18:10. So it is probably typo in kneeboard.

I´ve tried oil dilution and I´ve found where the problem is: on oil dilution cover si somehow shifted area of interaction with mouse. It is shifted way back than on others (supercharger and radiator test) buttons. So you are right it really works. If you bind this to you joystick it work fine. My bad, sorry.

If I understand you correctly: as you keep your oil dilution button pressed and your oil pressure below 120 and never go above, you can raise RPMs higher let say 1400 - 1500? Without damaging your engine?

[Reflected]

You can go above 120 initially, as long as you keep the rpm below 1500

[Screamadelica]

Should you depress the oil dilution button before engine start up or after?

Or is either way correct to cause the oil pressure to drop?

 

[Reflected]

After engine start. Usually you do it before shutdown “for next time” but that’s not possible in dcs

[Screamadelica]

I remember the manual stating it was a procedure used prior to shutting down the engine, as you said.

Just made me wonder if depressing it prior to start up might make it more effective. Guess not.

DCS really needs a warmed up engine option.

[Rutch]

I agree it would be great if there was a way to either:

- Hot start engines at mission start. That way, the engines are on and warming up as soon as mission briefing begins; or

- add 5-10 mins to the mission start time to allow more time for engine warm up and form up etc. I.e, if set course is at 18:10 then keep it at that, but start the actual mission at 17:50 (for example).

the second point would be great and could work well with the current setup, as Reflected added the great feature of being able to give a ‘thumbs up’ when you’re ready to taxi. I appreciate it’s out of Reflected’s control. Would be good if the Engines were warm at mission start as it would have been this way in Ww2. 

Edited February 22 by Rutch

[Bashibazouk]

On 11/7/2024 at 10:46 AM, Reflected said:

Just out of curiosity I flew Mission 8 today. The coldest one in the middle of January. 5 minutes from mission start (not engine start) my temps were good for takeoff - I could have taxied even earlier. 

So just keep that oil dilution button depressed for a minute, and as pressure drops, keep increasing the boost.

I'm not having problems with engine warmup. I rush to get the engine turning over before everything else, and if it's cold, I do use the oil dilution (it's working on my setup). I don't wait until everything is exactly according to the book, as I mentally calculate including the taxi to takeoff as part of my engine warmup. 

I'm sure it's frustrating to have your engine die because you're rushing to form up, but I'm just not having that problem. And typically, I have all sorts of problems because I'm a bit slapdash and my system is overloaded with mods . Luck of the draw, I suppose, although I had a doozy of a problem with the Mirage F-1, which I eventually solved through manual filtering of my mods.

 

While I'm here, I'd like to say how much the DCS changes to the AI, specifically not allowing AI to firewall everything on the climb, has made these campaigns more enjoyable for me. In the past, I would climb at about 180 and keep the engine on 28.5/12. The flight would draw away from me and I'd catch up over the channel or France. It made the first part of a mission quite dull and I never liked doing the climb. But now the DCS gods have told the AI that they need to be more realistic in engine use, I'm climbing in proper formation. I even have to drop the throttle from time to time to stop me overtaking, as you usually need to do with formation flying IRL! It makes this important part of a mission something I actually have to pay attention to, and something I enjoy rather than dreading doing it.