Buddy Lasing noob question

[Kh4]

Hi, I'm fairly up to speed in sp re acquiring and lasing targets from the front or the rear seat with George, however in mp I hear people offering to lase targets for other players. So my question is, if someone lases a target how do I acquire it for targeting? Or is the LFRD code set the same for all players on a particular server? Apologies if this is a somewhat tedious question for more experienced players 

[admiki]

It depends whether it's LOBL or LOAL shot.

If it's LOBL, you can either engage LST to acquire the laser or you can just move around until HF seeker picks it up.

If it's LOAL, you should have a point in space set as your acquisition source. That way you will know when you are within constraints for LOAL shot. In any case, if your HF sees the laser it will override LOAL setting and go into LOBL mode.

As for codes, you can all use same code, which brings in the danger of HF picking up wrong laser or you and your buddy set your own code.

[Kh4]

OK thanks. I just watched Wags' LST video and can see I have a little to learn and practice 

[Floyd1212]

Buddy lasing can be quite fun, but I find it less useful in a public server unless there is good communication going on, which often there isn't.  I can't even get other Apaches to call their rifles on the radio when they are working the same AO as me.

But in general, you need to 1) coordinate with the other player you are working with as to what laser code to use (you can either change the code on the missile to match the person lasing, or they can change the code they are lasing to match the code of your missile), and 2) communicate a general location of where the targets are located.

Ideally, the person lasing would store the target and give you the coordinates for you to type in and get a specific location to orient your shot. Or even better, setup datalink between the two of you, and they can send the stored target to you directly.

For me, if you are in a position where you can pick up his targets with LST, you might as well lase the target yourself.  The fun comes in being able to lob missiles from behind cover and never even see the target, and more importantly, the target never sees you.

[admiki]

9 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

For me, if you are in a position where you can pick up his targets with LST, you might as well lase the target yourself.

This way he can shoot from back seat and being less exposed to George's flying abilities.

[Floyd1212]

In hindsight, another use-case of LST giving you the direction cues before firing the missile, is if you are in close to the target and expose yourself just long enough to launch, but then bug out and find cover again while your buddy continues to lase from a safe distance.  Essentially making your Kilo a fire-and-forget missile, but with better reliability than the Lima.

 

[Thundersmoke]

This might already be obvious to you, but just be mindful that there are few different places where you can enter laser codes, and which ones you manipulate will depend on what you're trying to do.

• Laser Spot Tracker (LST):  Changing this code (for example, to match a JTAC or fixed wing lasing a target), will enable (from the CPG seat only, I think) you to search for their laser spot.  On its own, it does nothing else.  In Wags' video, you'll see he uses it to find the lased target, but then handles lasing for his Hellfires himself.

• Laser Range-Finder (LRFD):  Changing this code changes the code of your laser.  For lasing your own Hellfires, it needs to match the primary (PRI) code for the Hellfires.  If you're lasing for someone else, it will need to match the laser code of their laser-guided bombs/rockets/missiles.

• Primary channel (PRI):  This is the code that your Hellfires are looking for.  If you're self-lasing, it needs to match your LRFD channel.  If you're getting a buddy-lase, it needs to match the code on your buddy's laser.

Ideal use-case:

On multiplayer servers with heavy, integrated PvE air-defense (Grayflag, etc.), some objectives are very tough to crack.  But fixed-wing with excellent targeting pods (A-10's come to mind) can remain at standoff distance, lase the target, and your Apache can mask behind terrain:

• As pilot, establish masked battle position within range of target
• Drop a target point in the general vicinity of the target; set as ACQ source (this points your missiles in the right direction, enough to pick up the laser).
• Match PRI missile code to A-10's laser code
• Confirm his/her laser is on
• WAS Hellfires
• Configure for LOAL, high trajectory (to get it over the terrain you're masked behind)
• Rifle (note that as pilot, you'll be firing with holding the gun trigger, not the consent-to-fire / pickle button)

Very fun way to safely take out some otherwise hard-to-approach targets.

Edited to add:  I'm doing this from memory, without the game up, so folks can feel free to correct if I got anything wrong.  But hopefully this gets OP into the right neighborhood of understanding.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Thundersmoke

[ShuRugal]

On 6/8/2024 at 3:10 AM, Kh4 said:

Or is the LFRD code set the same for all players on a particular server?

If the mission editor did not change anything, all Apaches will have the same laser codes in each code "slot" (A, B, C, D etc.)  Additionally, the default code for A is 1688, which is the default laser code in other NATO lasers - all target pods will default to this, as will laser-guided munitions.

If the mission designer has changed the laser codes, you and your wingman will need to understand how to edit laser codes and change which code your LRFD is sending, which code your LST is looking for, and which code your missiles are looking for: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/upload/iblock/f6a/wi36xv816rx9p4slj30ac05w5jnj3sqb/DCS AH-64D Early Access Guide EN.pdf

 

Check out pages 425 (Channel sub page), 426 (Code sup page), 427 (FREQ sub page) 463 (laser code and missile channel overview), and 470 (SAL missile setup page) of the current version of the Early Access guide (linked above) for some quick overviews of how to change which laser codes you have set up and are using.

 

If you are not sharing a laser code with your wingman by default, the steps to get onto the same code (or check codes) are as follows:

 

1: navigate to the FREQ sub-page (WPN -> CODE -> FREQ)

2: select one of the Code slots (they don't need to be the same, but it helps for coordination if they are)

3: assign the value you will use to that code using the keyboard entry unit (example: press 'L' to select code Lima, Keyboard Unit becomes active, type '1788' and press 'enter, value of L changes to 1788)

4: navigate back to the CODE menu and set the LRFD and LST to Code L

5: navigate to the CHAN page (WPN -> CHAN) and add code L to the list of avilable codes on the bottom of the menu

6: Navigate to the SAL settings page (WPN -> MSL)

7: set PRI channel to L

 

after completing these steps, you and your wingman should both be sending laser code 1788 with your LRFD, your LSTs should both be able to find 1788, and your missiles should be looking for 1788.

 

Note again that this is ONLY required if the mission designer changed the default laser codes.  If the mission designer did not do this, then every apache defaults to using 1688 on channel A.

[Kh4]

Some awesome feedback I'm getting here. Thanks so much for taking the trouble 

Edited June 10, 2024 by Kh4

[Sully]

How, as the pilot, do I set the missile for LOAL? I can't for the life of me figure it out. I get a CAQ marked, I make the ACQ Source, I'm ready as Freddie to lob some hate, but I can't get the missile to rifle from the pilot seat. Is there a setting on the weapon page that makes the missile fire LOAL and HI or LO? It's probably something obvious I just can't even.....

[NeedzWD40]

4 hours ago, Sully said:

How, as the pilot, do I set the missile for LOAL?

If it doesn't see laser energy before launch, it's LOAL. Point nose in direction of target, WAS missiles, hold trigger til missile launches. If that doesn't work, make sure you have your HMD as your selected sight and that you have AGM-114K loaded.

[Sully]

7 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

 

Maybe leaving the wpt as the acq source is my issue. I was using it for range data but I think if I have it as my dir to wp it'll tell me the same. Thanks bub, I'll give this a try.

[Floyd1212]

Last night we found ourselves in a good situation to do some buddy-lasing with the help of two Kiowas.

They were each lasing on different codes from roughly 14km away from the target area.  We were down in the valley, masked by a small hill, roughly 6.5km from the target area.  We setup PRI and ALT channels on our missiles to match their codes, and set MODE to RIPL, and TRAJ to LO.  (In Ripple Fire mode, your missiles come off the rail alternating codes between the PRI and ALT channels, so you can rifle two missiles back-to-back, and they each go to their separate targets.)  We only had 4 missiles left at the time, so we rifled x2, delayed, then rifled 2 more.

It took a bit of coordination to get everything setup, and work out who was going to lase which targets, but in the end it was worth it.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Floyd1212

[LuseKofte]

Buddy lazing in public server do seldom happen except from squads flying together. And rear occasions. 
But for coop missions this is gold. 

[Thundersmoke]

19 hours ago, Sully said:

How, as the pilot, do I set the missile for LOAL? I can't for the life of me figure it out. I get a CAQ marked, I make the ACQ Source, I'm ready as Freddie to lob some hate, but I can't get the missile to rifle from the pilot seat. Is there a setting on the weapon page that makes the missile fire LOAL and HI or LO? It's probably something obvious I just can't even.....

As pilot, I pop open the George interface, move it to the Hellfire display, short press right to LOAL, and then long press right a couple of times to Trajectory: Hi.

From here, George won't have a target that he's lasing, and you may have to re-WAS the hellfires from your pilot position.  You can confirm trajectory settings persist through this transition on the Weapons page.

Just remember, when firing from the pilot seat, you're not using the "consent to fire" button that you normally use when letting George lase things.  You're squeezing and holding the trigger yourself.   Took me a long time to figure out why I couldn't get missiles off the rail as pilot.  Doing it this way, I think you should be able to get them to launch regardless of your ACQ source.  It's just that the source will get them pointed in the right direction to pick up the buddy lase.

Edited June 12, 2024 by Thundersmoke

[admiki]

13 minutes ago, Thundersmoke said:

As pilot, I pop open the George interface, move it to the Hellfire display, short press right to LOAL, and then long press right a couple of times to Trajectory: Hi.

From here, George won't have a target that he's lasing, and you may have to re-WAS the hellfires from your pilot position.  You can confirm trajectory settings persist through this transition on the Weapons page.

Just remember, when firing from the pilot seat, you're not using the "consent to fire" button that you normally use when letting George lase things.  You're squeezing and holding the trigger yourself.   Took me a long time to figure out why I couldn't get missiles off the rail as pilot.  Doing it this way, I think you should be able to get them to launch regardless of your ACQ source.  It's just that the source will get them pointed in the right direction to pick up the buddy lase.

 

It's not required to do all this. You can change trajectory on your MFD and unless seeker sees the laser, it's LOAL. If seeker can see laser return it will override any setting you/George have made and go into LOBL mode.

[Thundersmoke]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:05 PM, admiki said:

It's not required to do all this. You can change trajectory on your MFD and unless seeker sees the laser, it's LOAL. If seeker can see laser return it will override any setting you/George have made and go into LOBL mode.

TIL!  Thanks!

[ShuRugal]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:05 PM, admiki said:

It's not required to do all this. You can change trajectory on your MFD and unless seeker sees the laser, it's LOAL. If seeker can see laser return it will override any setting you/George have made and go into LOBL mode.

Also worth mentioning that the HI/LO/DIR trajectory settings do nothing in LOBL.  if the missile sees a laser, it will always fly its pre-programmed "i see the laser" trajectory, which is distinct from HI/LO/DIR.