waiting for resolution ED/RAZBAM Situation Info & Discussion

[NineLine]

First off, there is nothing new to report as of the date of this post, this new thread is simply a clean-up and ease of access for all current official information on the current issues between Eagle Dynamics & RAZBAM. Hopefully, this will make it easier to see the current known information and weed it out from the theories, guesses and suggestions in the other thread. If you want to see that one, the link will be available at the bottom of the post.

The first public knowledge of the disagreement happened with an announcement on the RAZBAM Discord here:

https://discord.com/channels/536389125276827660/544501300134543380/1225494495458627634

razbam_prowler — 04/04/2024 10:17 AM
Dear Customers and Community,

You may have noticed that the that the latest RAZBAM announcements does not include a changelog or any updates for our products. We would like to inform you that, until further notice, all support for RAZBAM-developed aircraft modules is on hold. This suspension encompasses, but is not limited to, bug fixes and updates.

We want to reaffirm our unwavering commitment to this exceptional community, our current customers, and prospective clients. Unfortunately, due to circumstances completely beyond our control, we are temporarily unable to continue our work at this time. Our team, a group of highly skilled and professional developers, is first and foremost made up of dedicated individuals. They invest not only their expertise but also their personal dedication and sacrifice into crafting our products. For many, this work provides essential supplementary income or even constitutes their primary livelihood.

We are hopeful for a swift resolution so that we can resume our normal operations. However, until these issues are resolved, we will not be issuing any updates about our products. We ask for your understanding during this challenging period, a situation that RAZBAM Simulations did not seek and which has previously seriously affected other parties, for example Heatblur Simulations. We have been patient, perhaps too patient, waiting for a resolution from the responsible parties. Now, we find it necessary to take a stand and await a practical solution to this deadlock.

I also want to extend my heartfelt thanks to my fellow third-party developers. Their support, once aware of the relevant facts, has been overwhelming. Thank you for elevating DCS to new heights; it truly wouldn't be the remarkable experience it is without your contributions.

The suspension will remain in effect until the significant issues between Eagle Dynamics and RAZBAM Simulations LLC are resolved to our mutual satisfaction. Once these issues have been addressed, we will resume our standard practices of bug fixing, updates, and upgrades, just as we have since our inception as developers for DCS. We hope this resolution results in a more stable and optimistic future for DCS and all 3rd Party Developers.

Best regards

Ron Zambrano
CEO
RAZBAM Simulations, LLC

Eagle Dynamics was compelled to respond shortly after on their Discord found here:

https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/543013214485610520/1225540029493936219

04/04/2024 1:18 PM
Following the message published by Ron Zambrano of Razbam Simulations, we believe that it is necessary to rectify some of the unfounded allegations and to reassure the Community that everything is being done to resolve the current situation promptly and for the benefit of all concerned.
 
Without entering into the details of matters that are confidential to the parties, we firmly reject the allegations that the current disagreement between Eagle Dynamics and Razbam Simulations would be as stated by Razbam “due to circumstances completely beyond our control" and that it is "a situation that Razbam Simulations did not seek".
 
On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights, and for which we are seeking a reasonable and forward-looking commercial outcome rather than entertaining legal claims.
 
We very much regret that Ron Zambrano has decided, without even pre-advising us, to make these disparaging public statements and, more importantly, to take the customers of the Razbam developed aircraft as leverage in the discussions with us. 

Please rest assured, we are addressing the situation with the utmost attention and constructiveness.

Many thanks and kind regards,

Nick Grey

RAZBAM followed with this reply:

https://discord.com/channels/536389125276827660/544501300134543380/1226492074233434182

razbam_prowler — 04/07/2024 4:21 AM
@here 
Dear customers and community
RAZBAM Simulations is actively working with EAGLE DYNAMICS to reach an agreement to resolve our internal dispute and we don't want the discussion that our public declaration has generated to escalate any further. We want to assure you that it has never been nor will it be our intention to abandon our products. We look forward to a prompt and satisfactory resolution, turn the page, and move forward.

Best regards
Ron Zambrano
CEO
RAZBAM Simulations, LLC

This was the last of the official announcements from both management parties.

While both teams have officially been very quiet due to the delicate nature of issues at hand there has been some events that have come up and caused concerns.

Some Anti-Virus programs were picking up a false positive on some DCS DLLs. Sadly it seemed to be worse on some of the RAZBAM modules fueling fears of issues with the modules. This can be solved by adding the DCS install folder to the exceptions for your anti-virus software, this happens from time to time so this was nothing new. 

The M2000 had some issues, including CTDs. This was an accidental merge of some changes one of the developers was working on. Once it was identified the changes were reverted and the issues were solved (although nothing was noted in the changelog at the time). This was not anything related to compatibility with the core game.

June 12th at Midnight the F-15E radar stopped working. While we have internally identified the issue no fix has been presented as of yet. once we have solid news on that we will share that ASAP. Again this had nothing to do with core compatibility but rather something in the coding of the F-15E.
UPDATE: When version 2.9.6 drops it will contain a fix for the F-15E radar. This fix was created by our team and not given to us by any other party. 

Refunds

While at first, we were maintaining our normal refund rules, we decided to bend a little for those who were frustrated with the issues and how they affected an Early Access Product. We have been giving a store credit for the value of the F-15E when you purchased it. You may open a ticket here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/ for a refund, but we ask for patience as it may take up to 7-10 business days to process your refund. 

Other modules will not be refunded at this time, all of these are out of Early Access and remain working. It is our commitment that no matter what happens we will do our best to make sure these continue to work into the future. We understand those of you who remember losing the Hawk, this is not something we intend to do again.

Steam refunds are based on the play time of the core game, not the individual module. It is their policy and they handle the refunds. As we understand it, no refunds have been accepted by Valve. All modules continue to work, aside from the current radar issues with the F-15E which we hope will be addressed sooner than later. South Atlantic continues to be updated and as I stated above, the other older modules we plan to make sure they continue to work into the foreseeable future. 

Is ED broke?
No, Eagle Dynamics is very healthy aside from this dispute currently, all other 3rd Parties and the ED development team continue to work and push new and exciting content out to you. 

Is ED pushing things out because they are out of money?
No, most of these recent products have been scheduled for quite some time now, into early last year. The 3rd Party products are based on when they are ready from their own team, although some delays here and there squished some release dates together, nothing has been out of the ordinary except more goodies in a short amount of time. 

How can you keep selling the F-15E or other modules? UPDATE 2025-04-07
Right now we are working within the framework of the legal advice moving forward and not wanting to cause any more riffs or issues. It's a complex process at this point and most likely why it seems to be moving so slowly for everyone. Nothing more can be said about that right now. Sorry.
After receiving an official request by RAZBAM to remove products from sale we have done so. All products will be fully supported by DCS and will continue to operate.

We cannot comment on any more conspiracy theories than this. This was an unfortunate disagreement that had been going on for some time and finally went public. I can only speak for Eagle Dynamics but I believe both teams want to resolve this as fast as possible and get back to making virtual airplanes. 

The discussion below was the old thread. This new thread may be moderated a little harder, so please be nice to each other, know that all the other customers in here discussing this with you are in the same boat and probably want the same thing. So let's be open to their opinions and concerns and understand they are allowed to have them as much as you are. Anything from any user here without an official tag won't be making any official comments, me and @BIGNEWY will only comment on publically available info as this is a legal matter at the end of the day.

I cannot say enough, on behalf of all of us at Eagle Dynamics, how sorry we are that you are being made, in part by us, to go through this. We are committed to getting this sorted as soon as we can.

Thanks
The ED Team

 

[NineLine]

Yet another purge has been completed, you can find the old posts here: 

 

I kindly remind you all, once again, to treat each other with the kindness and respect you expect to be treated with. Everyone has their opinions and we are allowing them to be shared here within reason. We are also being more easygoing unless people start stepping well over the line. 

Nothing is new from the official statements above. I know there is a lot of noise out there, and it's hard to determine what is real and what is Reddit rambling. All I can say right now is to stick to the official comments and try and remain as patient as you can be for a resolution one way or another. It's a legal issue currently and we cannot and will not comment further than what we have already.

Thanks
The ED Team. 

 

[NineLine]

10 hours ago, some1 said:

Bomb fuses in Razbam modules are broken since the core weapons update in May. That's what you call "so far so good":

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/351882-the-fuze-option-for-multiple-bombs-per-rack-is-not-available/

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/350058-not-possible-to-use-new-fuze-options-on-weapons-in-cft-stations

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/357674-cbus-fall-too-short-and-bombs-are-only-triggered-individually

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/350035-mk-20-in-ccip-drops-several-hundred-feet-short-of-the-ccip-piper

It will only get worse with time.

 

We cannot make the same promises with the F-15E as we have also stated as its very early in EA.

It's almost like some of you refuse to read the first post

Quote

 

While at first, we were maintaining our normal refund rules, we decided to bend a little for those who were frustrated with the issues and how they affected an Early Access Product. We have been giving a store credit for the value of the F-15E when you purchased it. You may open a ticket here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/ for a refund, but we ask for patience as it may take up to 7-10 business days to process your refund. 

Other modules will not be refunded at this time, all of these are out of Early Access and remain working. It is our commitment that no matter what happens we will do our best to make sure these continue to work into the future. We understand those of you who remember losing the Hawk, this is not something we intend to do again.

 

About time for another purge as I see many of you spinning back on to the same topics over and over. This thread is like the movie Groundhog Day, and the only way to stop it is for a resolution to be found. 

On that note, of not reading the first post, welcome to the newest purge, you can still find all the old messages in the old thread, this one is once again cleaned. Lets try again to discuss what is in the first post as that is all we will discuss here. Thanks. 

[BIGNEWY]

Please note:

After receiving an official request by RAZBAM to remove products from sale we have done so. All products will be fully supported by DCS and will continue to operate.

thank you 

[pepin1234]

This. Create a Branch company and keep going with Mig-23 project. Can someone in ED and Razbam illuminate with positive ideas to save Mig-23MLA module? 

[NineLine]

Another thread purge, as always, you can find the old discussion here:

 

[Mike Force Team]

@NineLine and @BIGNEWY,

How about ED and Razbam hold a joint meeting in Facebook or in YouTube? This allows both companies to answer DCS community questions and also tell us how the companies are working together. 

Mike Force Team 

[Smashy]

LOL

[VietGirl]

Lawyers probably wouldn't allow that?

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

[cfrag]

8 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

How about ED and Razbam hold a joint meeting in Facebook or in YouTube?

How about they wrestle in public over Easter at the Pope's Saint Peter Basilica, with the pope himself as referee to insure impartiality? And the side of the public that screams loudest wins. 

Yeah, that would help.

[schurem]

I love this idea. Make it so!

[AndyJWest]

Magical thinking...

[NineLine]

22 hours ago, Mike Force Team said:

@NineLine and @BIGNEWY,

How about ED and Razbam hold a joint meeting in Facebook or in YouTube? This allows both companies to answer DCS community questions and also tell us how the companies are working together. 

Mike Force Team 

Mike, I feel like I give you the same answer for every question, but it's with lawyers now, lawyers do the communication and we cannot make this a public debate. 

PS Please do not open new topics about this. 

[Tank50us]

15 hours ago, cfrag said:

How about they wrestle in public over Easter at the Pope's Saint Peter Basilica, with the pope himself as referee to insure impartiality? And the side of the public that screams loudest wins. 

Yeah, that would help.

Or failing that, flintlocks at 20 paces....

[PhantomHans]

16 hours ago, NineLine said:

we cannot make this a public debate. 

Are you under a gag order or an NDA covering this dispute for some reason?

[cfrag]

10 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

Are you under a gag order or an NDA covering this dispute for some reason?

It's usually the first thing any competent lawyer tells you. Remember "anything you say can, and will, be used against you"? That's the gist. I've been in my share of litigation, and you NEVER say a peep about it if you are serious about winning.

[Hammer1-1]

an artists rendering of where this thread will eventually go.

In case you're wondering, this is hulk beating a dead horse with a dead dog.

Edited Sunday at 06:09 PM by Hammer1-1

[Dragon1-1]

5 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

an artists rendering of where this thread will eventually go.

I'm pretty sure AI doesn't count as an artist.

[PhantomHans]

9 hours ago, cfrag said:

It's usually the first thing any competent lawyer tells you. Remember "anything you say can, and will, be used against you"? That's the gist. I've been in my share of litigation, and you NEVER say a peep about it if you are serious about winning.

That would mean that they could talk, they just choose not to.

[Oban]

5 minutes ago, PhantomHans said:

That would mean that they could talk, they just choose not to.

But they, as in ED's Community manager(s) have talked, and everything they've got to say about the current situation is pinned at the start of this thread, and every thread since  it all went South, you're just being obtuse.

[Hammer1-1]

45 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I'm pretty sure AI doesn't count as an artist.

but certainly...artistic...ish.....y....

[rob10]

1 hour ago, PhantomHans said:

That would mean that they could talk, they just choose not to.

So you talk and put your company into a worse legal position.  That would be a brilliant move.  Smart companies/people listen to their lawyers when they tell them to clam it.  If they don't it usually turns out badly.

[Mad Dog 762]

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?  

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

Maybe RazBam could sell the modules to HeatBlur and they could support them and finish the F-15E?  

if they do that, then we'd never see the A-6E. We're still waiting on an AI tanker, while I agree they are the best to take it on...