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F-4E Dolphin


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Posted
On 7/18/2024 at 12:49 AM, Schlomo1933 said:

Because the immersion and the feeling of flying gets 1000% better with good hardware. 
I’m using since a year a 
Rhino FFB stick…. And flying the F4, F14, helos  or warbirds is an entirely new World of feeling and immersion. 

 

 

ok but most people don't go that route. Most people expect they can use standard hardware and won't be hindered to any significant degree because they didn't invest a thousand dollars on an extravagant stick.

There are people flying on old computers with tiny monitors, let alone big screens, 4090's, and VR kits. A lot of people aren't even using pedals.

It's not hard to devise a virtual solution to make those levels of hardware accessible. In this case, it's as simple as putting the virtual stick closer to the joystick instead of having it flop around like a dolphin just because they didn't buy a $1000 stick. It doesn't matter if the stick is better, it shouldn't be needed.

Posted

The needed hardware is expensive. Shure.  
But DCS focus is on realism. It’s not a game . It’s a simulation. (with just a few simplified systems) 
If you want to fly more arcade mode and don’t want spend so much money than DCS is maybe the wrong “game” for you .
 

Don’t expect that the devs make the flight models more easy/arcadish just because some people want to “play” with an Xbox controller. 

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Posted

Thank you everyone for the feedback. We will be looking into ways to improve the experience for all users, cheers.

No need to argue about our possible intentions :)

Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Schlomo1933 said:

The needed hardware is expensive. Shure.  
But DCS focus is on realism. It’s not a game . It’s a simulation. (with just a few simplified systems) 
If you want to fly more arcade mode and don’t want spend so much money than DCS is maybe the wrong “game” for you .
 

Don’t expect that the devs make the flight models more easy/arcadish just because some people want to “play” with an Xbox controller. 

I don't know where you get flight model and xbox from, but I assume you're just committed to being disingenuous or have no understanding of the issue.

Like I said before, to some degree the sim needs to be accessible. This sim has a small userbase and the majority of them have limited hardware. Reasonable accommodations need to be made for the use of a standard HOTAS. That means if stick forces are going to be modeled into a non FFB stick, there needs to be a virtual pilot modeled that reacts to those forces reasonably. It doesn't make sense to assume the pilot will always have noodle arms or never brace. It's why you have your helicopter trim release gimmick options, lower details, and a host of many other options unique for each aircraft concerning force, trims, and rudder assistance. I do and can expect the devs to adjust virtual pilot models so that people with a HOTAS aren't limited to an artificially degraded experience.

 

Edited by FusRoPotato
  • Like 2
Posted
20 hours ago, Schlomo1933 said:

The needed hardware is expensive. Shure.  
But DCS focus is on realism. It’s not a game . It’s a simulation. (with just a few simplified systems) 
If you want to fly more arcade mode and don’t want spend so much money than DCS is maybe the wrong “game” for you .
 

Don’t expect that the devs make the flight models more easy/arcadish just because some people want to “play” with an Xbox controller. 

"It's not a game" heh

"Video game" includes many genres including, but not limited to, FPS, RTS, MMO and..../drum roll....simulations.

I'll never understand the kind of elitism you displayed in your post, my brain simply can't break that down and make it sound reasonable. In the ultimate realism, you get one life, period. No one wants that.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Schlomo1933 said:

My post has nothing to do with elitism. The game-mode insnt supported anymore for  a reason, because spending development time kills recources. And those resources are better used for bringing more realism to DCS. Mostly nobody from us will have the opportunity fly a fighterjet, warbird or helo in reality. Thats why so many from us want DCS realistic as possible.  

U arguing like a little kid: Mehh ... for proper use i need this or that , but those things are expensive meeehhh , and i dont want to buy it mehhh .... 

And because u cant or u will not spend money in ur hobby, u blame people with a different meaning for ellitism

Mostly all hobbys are expensive, and DCS for shure also. 

 

What exactly is it about my response that is acting like a kid? Are you going with name calling because you can't address the point?

Most people operate DCS on a decent PC and HOTAS, what's usually a $2000-$3000 investment. I have a top of the line PC, several VKB sticks, and a custom made and working FFB project made of wood, 3d printing, and helicopter motors. I'm a little more than $5000 invested for my hobby and work on simulators professionally. You've wrongly assumed I won't spend money, wrongly assumed I don't have an FFB stick, and are probably unaware that I've printed graphs in another thread showing both the physical FFB response and the error response of a non-FFB input against the virtual position.

All the aircraft in DCS utilize a rigid virtual pilot to firmly hold the virtual stick where the user is holding their physical stick. They do this because this is the common setup. They sometimes go even further than what is being suggested because developers (HB included) respect accessibility options. They provided some for the F-4 already. You argue the F-4 should be an exception here, that a loose grip of the virtual pilot should be in place to make FFB users have better control of their aircraft, despite them having provided a few accessibility options?

Nobody mentioned or requested any kind of game mode, xbox controller support, or anything unrealistic. What is being asked of is realistic virtual pilot modeling. We're talking about the interface between stick reaction forces and a standard HOTAS (not cheap) that almost everyone here uses.

Edited by FusRoPotato
  • Like 1
  • 9 months later...
Posted

I've experienced this twice today when refuelling.  All's good, then I get into what feels like PIO, but isn't.  I can fly with pretty much no stick input and it still oscillates.  

I noticed that the Wheels light was flickering every so often whilst this was happening, but nothing I could do could fix the problem.  

I then flew again just now and experienced the same thing.  After a couple of minutes of fuelling the oscillating starts, then the wheel light flashes.  This time though the right hydraulic gauge was falling to zero and up again.  I also got the check hydraulic pressure warning light.  

For what it's worth I saved the track file this time.  

PORPOISE.trk

i9 12900KS  |  3090ti 24GB  |  64GB 5200Mhz DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum

GS-4 Seat  |  NLM V3  |  Moza AB9  |  Warthog Throttle + stick  |  MFG Crosswind  |  Reverb G1

 

Posted

Generally, up and down is completely normal behavior for the F4 (due to bellows vs bobweights).

That said, there are known hydraulic issues in the current patch which are already fixed internally for the next update. Possibly you had your slats extending and retracting constantly (which btw is correct behavior in certain situations and is countered by simply changing the current flight configuration - make sure that your tanker flies at a speed that is appropriate for the F4 and not around a speed that triggers this situation for you).

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks @Zabuzard, I watched back the track before your response and I did notice the slats continuously moving, although I’d been flying perfectly level whilst all internal tanks filled up, and only then the porpoising started.  The tanker speed would have not changed, only the weight of the jet.  Perhaps it was just the wrong speed for the current loadout. 

The track replay actually showed the jet vibrating violently (like 10hz) after tanking, which obviously didn’t happen live, but most likely some hiccup with the track.

  • Like 1

i9 12900KS  |  3090ti 24GB  |  64GB 5200Mhz DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum

GS-4 Seat  |  NLM V3  |  Moza AB9  |  Warthog Throttle + stick  |  MFG Crosswind  |  Reverb G1

 

Posted

Yeah. So the upcoming patch will include slight changes to slat behavior in such configurations IIRC and also plenty of hydraulic fixes. So possibly after the update it might be better.

But in general it is definitely correct behavior that you can end up in a situation with the slats going out, that causing you to change angles and speed, causing them to go in again and vice versa. IRL they would just grab the stick and throttle and just change the setup so you are not crawling around this edge case anymore.

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