How to make 3D Pilot Head visible? | Slow Panning Rotational Camera Shot

[CommandT]

I wonder if they used a replay or recorded the pilot head on shots "live" in the latest video:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8_4ex8RiSJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Vee.A]

10 hours ago, CommandT said:

Unfortunately that "Freeze" button doesn't work for replays from what I can tell. So basically it means you'd have to fly the plane whilst looking backwards to get your pilot shot! Gah!  

Thanks for clarifying all of that though! 

And regarding the Heatblur F-4. Currently there's a bug in the replay - the pilot doesn't hold the stick during the replay, he holds thin air and the stick itself moves freely in and around his hands! So totally ruins that shot.

Also it would be so much more useful to have the pilot head either on or off like the F-4 for other modules. I've been trying to get an angle that works in the F-18 but the problem is that after rotating your angle even by a bit sometimes using your trackir the pilot's head disappears. Basically it needs more margin for when the head is visible as getting good shots can be almost impossible with how far away from the pilot's head you need to be to have it not disappear... but then you end up cutting through the canopy glass and that's the shot ruined! 

There actually was more "margin" when the new pilot model for the Hornet was added, but since the view automatically shifts sideways when looking back to clear the seat, the pilot head would appear. It was also an issue with head-tracking and VR. That's of course very annoying during normal gameplay, so they extended the limits where the head wouldn't appear. I do think Heatblur's toggle for the head makes more sense, though if you extend the camera limits I do find there are some good-looking positions where the head never disappears. You could also try finding some real cockpit videos and trying to emulate those camera positions in the simulator and see if they work well.

I tested it myself and it does seem like the freeze button doesn't work in the replays. I'd imagine that's something to do with how it's programmed since it's made to "ignore" all current inputs in the replay.

 I think the ED footage is getting those shots by the normal replay functionality that's actually working. I don't see any other way to get them. I think it's an issue with our current build that's fixed on the development build they're using. When I asked GlowingAmraam about it a while ago he didn't even know it was an issue. Hopefully, it will be fixed in the next update; otherwise, I'll post a bug report

[CommandT]

6 hours ago, Vee.A said:

There actually was more "margin" when the new pilot model for the Hornet was added, but since the view automatically shifts sideways when looking back to clear the seat, the pilot head would appear. It was also an issue with head-tracking and VR. That's of course very annoying during normal gameplay, so they extended the limits where the head wouldn't appear. I do think Heatblur's toggle for the head makes more sense, though if you extend the camera limits I do find there are some good-looking positions where the head never disappears. You could also try finding some real cockpit videos and trying to emulate those camera positions in the simulator and see if they work well.

I tested it myself and it does seem like the freeze button doesn't work in the replays. I'd imagine that's something to do with how it's programmed since it's made to "ignore" all current inputs in the replay.

 I think the ED footage is getting those shots by the normal replay functionality that's actually working. I don't see any other way to get them. I think it's an issue with our current build that's fixed on the development build they're using. When I asked GlowingAmraam about it a while ago he didn't even know it was an issue. Hopefully, it will be fixed in the next update; otherwise, I'll post a bug report

Great, thanks for doing a bug report if it's not fixed in the next update! And yeah I remember the issue with the F-18 pilot head popping up when looking back. I agree it was not ideal but was super great for cinematics. 

And yes, real life type footage is exactly what I've been trying to do. In fact my problem right now is that I'm trying to do an "insta360" type shot where the camera keeps level with the horizon whilst the plane is rotating around it (can be done easily by tweaking trackir roll limits)... that's where I'm getting the stupid issue of the pilot's head disappearing, or otherwise the canopy glass cutting through the image because you have to be so far away from the pilot's head. In other words, the real life shot cannot be made in DCS in the F-18 at this time. In the F-4 it is possible but since the pilot's hand isn't holding the stick properly during replay that shot is ruined for that reason. 

Just for reference, the shots I'm trying to get are here at 1:55 onwards: 

 

Edited July 6, 2024 by CommandT

[Vee.A]

10 hours ago, CommandT said:

Great, thanks for doing a bug report if it's not fixed in the next update! And yeah I remember the issue with the F-18 pilot head popping up when looking back. I agree it was not ideal but was super great for cinematics. 

And yes, real life type footage is exactly what I've been trying to do. In fact my problem right now is that I'm trying to do an "insta360" type shot where the camera keeps level with the horizon whilst the plane is rotating around it (can be done easily by tweaking trackir roll limits)... that's where I'm getting the stupid issue of the pilot's head disappearing, or otherwise the canopy glass cutting through the image because you have to be so far away from the pilot's head. In other words, the real life shot cannot be made in DCS in the F-18 at this time. In the F-4 it is possible but since the pilot's hand isn't holding the stick properly during replay that shot is ruined for that reason. 

Just for reference, the shots I'm trying to get are here at 1:55 onwards: 

 

 

https://youtu.be/AAILvWvOrOc?si=Y-bOUG03WYX8SixV

The camera stabilized thing is a pretty interesting idea for a cinematic! I'm also glad I'm not seemingly the only one that has taken interest in these pilot models... It's a shame that the Phantom's is a little bugged too. For the Hornet, have you tried with the camera further back towards the seat? I don't seem to have any issues with the head disappearing there.

This is another interesting angle that might be worth a try

 

[CommandT]

1 hour ago, Vee.A said:

https://youtu.be/AAILvWvOrOc?si=Y-bOUG03WYX8SixV

The camera stabilized thing is a pretty interesting idea for a cinematic! I'm also glad I'm not seemingly the only one that has taken interest in these pilot models... It's a shame that the Phantom's is a little bugged too. For the Hornet, have you tried with the camera further back towards the seat? I don't seem to have any issues with the head disappearing there.

This is another interesting angle that might be worth a try

 

Yes, tried with the camera further back like you have - it works fine if using normal zoom but if you try ultrawide it looks silly with most of the shot taken up by the seat headrest. Any further left and you start cutting though canopy glass (if using ultrawide angles and rotating the camera like a stabilized insta360 camera). Any further forward and the pilots head is likely to disappear. The problem is often that the pilot's body moves around left, right, forward and backward and the head sometimes comes too close to the camera position and disappears as the margins are always based on the pilot's head which moves around a lot. Heatblur way is the way to go. Just need them to fix the replay sync bug issue. 

Edited July 6, 2024 by CommandT

[Willdass]

@CommandT I did some testing yesterday with the F-16 and was very happy with the result of editing the lua (thanks @buceador) and moving the camera over the shoulder. I used the FOV graphich setting to adjust the zoom and think it worked great. Have you tried that? This also kept the head movements in the track replay. But as soon as I tried to rotate the camera (for example for backwards facing camera on the HUD ) the headtracking was lost. Any tips for that? Or is it best to use external view and move it inside the cockpit for backwards facing GoPro view?

This was just a test Short I made and think I came out pretty good:

edit: obiously the Short format does not give the best impression of the FOV/zoom but here is a screenshot: 
null

Love your videos btw @CommandT  

Edited July 11, 2024 by Willdass

[CommandT]

1 hour ago, Willdass said:

@CommandT I did some testing yesterday with the F-16 and was very happy with the result of editing the lua (thanks @buceador) and moving the camera over the shoulder. I used the FOV graphich setting to adjust the zoom and think it worked great. Have you tried that? This also kept the head movements in the track replay. But as soon as I tried to rotate the camera (for example for backwards facing camera on the HUD ) the headtracking was lost. Any tips for that? Or is it best to use external view and move it inside the cockpit for backwards facing GoPro view?

This was just a test Short I made and think I came out pretty good:

edit: obiously the Short format does not give the best impression of the FOV/zoom but here is a screenshot: 
null

Love your videos btw @CommandT  

 

Thanks, yeah unfortunately with the F-18 and using that sort of view you are likely to have the pilot's head disappear. Seems like different planes are coded with slight differences in that sense. Hopefully there will be some adjustments in the next patch.  

[Willdass]

14 minutes ago, CommandT said:

Thanks, yeah unfortunately with the F-18 and using that sort of view you are likely to have the pilot's head disappear. Seems like different planes are coded with slight differences in that sense. Hopefully there will be some adjustments in the next patch.  

Worked fine for me in the Hornet. Only zoom via "current field of view" slider

Edited July 11, 2024 by Willdass

[CommandT]

53 minutes ago, Willdass said:

Worked fine for me in the Hornet. Only zoom via "current field of view" slider

 

Yeah ideally I'd like to have the camera a bit more forward. Also when the virtual pilot moves around during manoeuvring and Gs, the head cuts in and out. But yes if you position fr back enough it works, it's just not a great views as most of the cockpit is covered by the pilot's head that way. 

[Willdass]

21 minutes ago, CommandT said:

Yeah ideally I'd like to have the camera a bit more forward. Also when the virtual pilot moves around during manoeuvring and Gs, the head cuts in and out. But yes if you position fr back enough it works, it's just not a great views as most of the cockpit is covered by the pilot's head that way. 

Ah OK, I understand. That's too bad

[buceador]

1 hour ago, CommandT said:

Any tips for that?

This is a F1 view post production Shadowplay - it accurately copies the movements I made.

 

[Willdass]

I tried it again in the Hornet and got a position pretty to the Display video posted above, but using the same method as with the F-16 I loose the head movements. Strange

[Vee.A]

3 hours ago, Willdass said:

I tried it again in the Hornet and got a position pretty to the Display video posted above, but using the same method as with the F-16 I loose the head movements. Strange

As we were talking about earlier, the head tracking replay functionality is broken in the Hornet. I was hoping the next update (that has now dropped) would fix it. Are you on the latest version? If not one of us should post a bug report about it. It's a rather niche feature they might not get around to otherwise

[Willdass]

33 minutes ago, Vee.A said:

As we were talking about earlier, the head tracking replay functionality is broken in the Hornet. I was hoping the next update (that has now dropped) would fix it. Are you on the latest version? If not one of us should post a bug report about it. It's a rather niche feature they might not get around to otherwise

Thx! No I haven't updated yet.

[Vee.A]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:13 PM, CommandT said:

Yes, tried with the camera further back like you have - it works fine if using normal zoom but if you try ultrawide it looks silly with most of the shot taken up by the seat headrest. Any further left and you start cutting though canopy glass (if using ultrawide angles and rotating the camera like a stabilized insta360 camera). Any further forward and the pilots head is likely to disappear. The problem is often that the pilot's body moves around left, right, forward and backward and the head sometimes comes too close to the camera position and disappears as the margins are always based on the pilot's head which moves around a lot. Heatblur way is the way to go. Just need them to fix the replay sync bug issue. 

 

They fixed the replay functionality for the Hornet in the latest update!

Edited July 12, 2024 by Vee.A