JDAMS and TOO. Not releasing first time and "inzone" errors.

[cptmrcalm]

Hi guys. I can fly - but cant operate the systems as well as I would like.

I am still learning. I read up on the TOO mode and have been using it with .... different results.

Many ways to drop JDAMS I know, but I seem to have problems with TOO mode. Same with the AGM-154s.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong in this video. (skip to 11:00 minutes in - there's more examples thereafter. I think one AGM-154 I was actually off target to release it (22:55) but the first 4 of 8 agm154s I have to reset by coming into air to air then back to air to ground and I can then fire... the last 4 I can actually ripple shot as preferred.)

 

Others seem to have problems too. Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

[cptmrcalm]

I had another go last night and all AGM-154s came off the rail after the first 2 had to be "reset". By "reset" I mean, coming into air to air and then back to air to ground again. 

Sometimes, the first of the weapons wont release despite being "in-zone".

I should add that the laser guided bombs work flawlessly with this TOO method. 

[Muchocracker]

Because you have a bunch of cuts in the video it's hard to tell what exactly you are doing incorrectly. But to me it seems like you have a misunderstanding of how the designations mechanization works for the hornet. You should not be switching master modes, that does not "reset" anything.

For IAM's in TOO mode the coordinates being generated by the TGP line of sight do not get automatically handed off as you move it. When you create a new designation it will handoff the data to the selected bomb, but if you're trying to move the pod around and drop on a new target you need to manually hand off the data to the next bomb with "TDC Depress", or by undesignating and creating a new one. 

Earlier in the video with the JDAM drops at 11 minutes. You're doing it in a roundabout way by switching master modes. By doing that you're resetting the designation, and then creating a new one by switching the TGP out of inertial track back to area track, which then gets handed off. But you're not doing subsequent handoffs to the next JSOW and it doesn't have coordinates. That is why your second JSOW is not releasing. 



The mission page is your greatest place to sanity check that the bomb does in fact have the right data handed off to it. You can watch the coordinates get updated here every time you TDC Depress or create a new designation.

Edited June 30, 2024 by Muchocracker

[cptmrcalm]

Thank you for the reply. 

What you have mentioned is my understanding as well. My term "reset" isnt meant as a technical term - more a behavioural expression to it "fixing itself" because it does "work" - albeit rather crudely. 

I am using TMS right to select my target. 

 

I will have another go to try and replicate/stick to a fixed pattern so I can measure. I have no doubt its me doing something wrong, after all, it usually is! - but I do tend to have a habit of finding bugs it seems!

 

 

[Muchocracker]

35 minutes ago, cptmrcalm said:

 I am using TMS right to select my target. 

Like i had mentioned. Using SCS towards the tgp and cycling the contrast tracking modes will only make a handoff if there isnt already a designation made. What you're doing really shouldnt even be working as the designation doesnt even actually go away in the first place as seen by the designation diamond still appearing on the HUD. But it hands off when the track mode changes nonetheless. i would consider this a bug.

Get in the habit of using TDC Depress. That is the proper way to do it. 

[cptmrcalm]

rgr that. will do. thank you.

[Phantom711]

Problem is, that you will find lots of outdated information out there on youtube etc on how TOO mode handles. It gets even worse when it comes to how to ripple JDAMs at multiple targets at once. Even though this goes beyond your actual problem here, this video might still give you a good explanation of how to handle TOO correctly.

 

[Muchocracker]

31 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

Problem is, that you will find lots of outdated information out there on youtube etc on how TOO mode handles. It gets even worse when it comes to how to ripple JDAMs at multiple targets at once. Even though this goes beyond your actual problem here, this video might still give you a good explanation of how to handle TOO correctly.

 

Yeah pretty much everything over a year old is out of date. That was when the coordinate handoffs were automatic and constantly updating with no pilot input.

[Phantom711]

@Muchocracker

True…and it is much better now, I think…

[Muchocracker]

16 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

@Muchocracker

True…and it is much better now, I think…

also accurate to how the jet works. It's required for the TOO entries 1 and 2 to even work for ripple dropping. 

[Smashy]

2 hours ago, Muchocracker said:

Yeah pretty much everything over a year old is out of date. That was when the coordinate handoffs were automatic and constantly updating with no pilot input.

Will the manual be updated along with the module?  I'm one of those weirdos that like to read the manuals cover-to-cover and it can be confusing when things don't work in the sim as they're described in the manual.

[Muchocracker]

 

7 hours ago, Smashy said:

Will the manual be updated along with the module?  I'm one of those weirdos that like to read the manuals cover-to-cover and it can be confusing when things don't work in the sim as they're described in the manual.

bro i don't write the manuals

[cptmrcalm]

Hopefully I will have some time end of the week to try all this out. Trying to get part 2 video done. But I really appreciate the replies. Thank you all.

 

"...What you're doing really shouldnt even be working as the designation doesnt even actually go away in the first place as seen by the designation diamond still appearing on the HUD."

 

See. Either accidentally or on purpose, I always seem to find the little bugs most people miss. Tinkering does that and never reading the manual like I should!

 

 

[cptmrcalm]

Once again Muchocracker - thank you.

 

Had another go. My first attempt didnt go well and I had to resort to my old ways to get it to work.

 

But on that one I might have accidentally TMS right one too many times to get the screen SOI. My last 2 went wild and went way WAY off target, but I might have been out of the ideal angle.

 

One of the AGM-154s went off from target - a good 2 or so miles and decided to spin around like crazy! About 50 revolutions!!! 

 

I have the tacedit if you want a good laugh. I can upload it.

 

However the second set of AGMs I could ripple off. I couldnt fire the first one. I had to "reset" again, but then once set, I could. So much better thank you.

 

I think it still needs some work. It's not quite right -but yes, absolutely, as you say, TDC not TMS is the way to go.

[Phantom711]

No such thing as "TMS" in the Hornet. You probably mean SCS (Sensor Control Switch).

Nitpicky...I know...

 

[Coyle]

41 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

No such thing as "TMS" in the Hornet. You probably mean SCS (Sensor Control Switch).

Nitpicky...I know...

 

Not nitpicky, IMO. It's comically annoying constantly seeing A-10/F-16 drivers referencing phraseology that doesn't apply to the hornet, I always found it as a lack of respect towards a different airframe. There's no SOI, TMS, DTC etc. for the hornet. And sure, I'm very well aware a lot of it can be boiled down to semantics since "SOI" and "TDC priority" can be practically used interchangeably, but if you're not going to bother trying to learning different things, what else are you going to overlook and not learn about/train towards. If I used hornet terms in those other forums I'd rightly never hear the end of it, shouldn't be any different here.

[Muchocracker]

5 hours ago, cptmrcalm said:

Once again Muchocracker - thank you.

 

Had another go. My first attempt didnt go well and I had to resort to my old ways to get it to work.

 

But on that one I might have accidentally TMS right one too many times to get the screen SOI. My last 2 went wild and went way WAY off target, but I might have been out of the ideal angle.

 

One of the AGM-154s went off from target - a good 2 or so miles and decided to spin around like crazy! About 50 revolutions!!! 

 

I have the tacedit if you want a good laugh. I can upload it.

 

However the second set of AGMs I could ripple off. I couldnt fire the first one. I had to "reset" again, but then once set, I could. So much better thank you.

 

I think it still needs some work. It's not quite right -but yes, absolutely, as you say, TDC not TMS is the way to go.

Watch this 

 

[cptmrcalm]

Yup. Thats exactly it. That's what I am doing since your recommendation on TDC further up. Nice.

Definitely a big improvement.

 

 

[5anaHalfHatsize]

..

Edited November 12, 2024 by 5anaHalfHatsize

[Bedouin]

On 7/1/2024 at 12:53 PM, Muchocracker said:

Yeah pretty much everything over a year old is out of date. That was when the coordinate handoffs were automatic and constantly updating with no pilot input.

Any links or know of any Youtube videos there is covering this after the change

[Muchocracker]

6 hours ago, 5anaHalfHatsize said:

nullHey @Muchocracker, thanks for the vid.

However I think there is still a bug.

If I fly with *just* AGM-154As your instructions work perfectly, but if I fly with HARMs (AGM-88Cs) as well, then I can release the first 154A, but I can't release any after that.

See attached screenshot of my loadout when it glitches.

You have to step through both stations and switch them to TOO mode.

[DD_fruitbat]

On 7/4/2024 at 10:24 PM, Muchocracker said:

Watch this 

 

Hi Muchocracker, are you running a mod in this video for the Tpod to get it greyscale? If so could you possibly link it please,

fb.

[Muchocracker]

5 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

Hi Muchocracker, are you running a mod in this video for the Tpod to get it greyscale? If so could you possibly link it please,

fb.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336864/

Might be this one, i don't remember. Our group does some mod repackaging to combine them into single files for our open mod manager packs 

[DD_fruitbat]

14 hours ago, Muchocracker said:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3336864/

Might be this one, i don't remember. Our group does some mod repackaging to combine them into single files for our open mod manager packs 

thanks