EUREKA!!. I think I understand whats been making this bird so hard for me to control

[fatchance]

Sorry for double post:

 

EUREKA!!. I think I understand whats been making this bird so hard for me to control sometimes. It's the NAV system/systems doing stuff that I'm not in control off.

 

After INTERMITTENTLY fighting with this bird for 50HRS I'm pretty sure that whenever the helo seems to have a mind of it's own it is because I'm being flown not just by the AutoPilot but most especially the NAV AUTOPILOT.

 

I have tried to turn off waypoints and the Route switch is in the middle position. I also make the DT/DR switch placed in middle position. I only want the stabilization aspects of the AP to function period.

 

It always seems to happen at the worst time just when I'm lining up a shot and the helo gets a mind of it's own. I think it might be related to the way I make my own missions an where the waypoints are close to the fighting areas.

 

Can someone make a checklist or suggest how to free me of the influence of the NAV system when I'm fighting?

 

I love this sim!!!!!

[EinsteinEP]

I only want the stabilization aspects of the AP to function period.

Flight Director.

[Stickers]

Depending how far I have to fly in the mission I am playing, I may or may not fly with Route Mode engaged.

 

If its a long distance, I get all my weapons setup to the point to where all I have to do is select either the inboard or outboard pylons just before I get to the Initial point. That means I turn on the laser/AutoTurn to target button/Ground Moving TGT button/Master ARM on/Helmet mounted sight on.

 

Once I fire all that up I turn off route mode/Retrim the bird to my liking and fly to the spot I want to start shooting from.

 

Once approaching the spot, I start to slow way down almost to a point where I am hovering all by my self. I TRIM the helicopter closely to a hovering trim. I then turn on AutoHover.

 

Look at the target area, activate the Shkval/select my weapon/lock a target shoot.

 

 

I find its always best to trim the helicopter as close as possible to what ever setup you want the auto pilot to do. You might have to deactivate Automatic Turn to target every once in a while to help break up the fight between you and the Aircraft. And dont forget when you deactivate autohover, the ALT button is still selected on the Autopilot pannel. Hope some of this helps. I am by all means NO EXPERT. I love this game though.

[fatchance]

Einstein, "I only want the stabilization aspects of the AP to function period." I should have said I only want the AP to provide Stability Augmentation damping and Attitude holding. FD turns off Attitude but leaves Dampening. This is good but I'd like both Attitude and Dampening available.

 

Are you saying FD deactivates all steering cues demanded by the NAV systems? Is there another way to deactivate the Nav ?

[slug88]

Einstein, "I only want the stabilization aspects of the AP to function period." I should have said I only want the AP to provide Stability Augmentation damping and Attitude holding. FD turns off Attitude but leaves Dampening. This is good but I'd like both Attitude and Dampening available.

 

Are you saying FD deactivates all steering cues demanded by the NAV systems? Is there another way to deactivate the Nav ?

 

Well, the "Nav" autopilot is off by default. You have to enabled Route Mode, indicated by green lamp lighting up on the overhead panel, to link the AP to the navigation system. The behavior that you describe (AP to provide Stability Augmentation damping and Attitude holding) is what you get by default, you don't have to change anything to set it that way. Sounds like you may need to dig deeper to understand your control frustrations. Have you watched the Producer's Notes?

[ZaltysZ]

Waypoints do not matter if your helicopter is not in route mode. Probably you are not using trim right. You have to make attitude and direction corrections only when trim button is pressed.

[fatchance]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly. I trim almost constantly. But I will try to see if you guys are right about FD and trim.

 

So far I've had best success eliminating the problem by pressing "susp" in ABRIS and turning the PVI800 off. Then I'm not fighting the AP for awhile. But this is not a reliable solution to the problem.

 

The problem that most frustrates me is in the yaw axis. Intermittently the helo will actually want to pivot in place even though route mode is off. The rudder is centered in the trim window. It will happen intermittently when I'm in hover mode, I have a target locked up and turn to target engaged. Another clue is that I sometimes notice a small diagonal line at the top of the HUD when this is happening.

[-Nighthawk-]

The only time I use autopilot is when I basically need to autopilot and I can leave the KA-50 flying for ~15 minutes on its own.

 

When it comes to battle and aerobatics etc. autopilot is gone.

[ZaltysZ]

I have written some text in bold on purpose. :smilewink: If FD is off and direction channel of autopilot is on, helicopter will always try to turn to designated direction. What direction? The one to which the helicopter has been facing when trim button was released.

[goldfinger35]

O.K. Now all of you got me confused. :huh:

When Pitch, bank and heading are on and flight director is off, and when I want to turn, do I have to:

a) Turn to desired position and than press trim button

or

b) Press and hold trim button, than turn to desired position and than release trim button.

Edited May 6, 2009 by goldfinger35

[sobek]

Until the patch comes out b, then a ;)

[McVittees]

The problem that most frustrates me is in the yaw axis. Intermittently the helo will actually want to pivot in place even though route mode is off. The rudder is centered in the trim window. It will happen intermittently when I'm in hover mode, I have a target locked up and turn to target engaged. Another clue is that I sometimes notice a small diagonal line at the top of the HUD when this is happening.

 

Hmm, not sure if this is what you mean but on a number of occasions I've had weird behaviour (namely crazy spinning) when turn to target is engaged, I'm in a hover (not autohover - don't use it much anymore) and rudder is trimmed centered. Basically what i think happens is the Shvkal lock drops and then I start spinning like a top. Very weird. Happened about three times to me I think. Once it was because the AP channels had started flashing so stabisation was off, but why they had started flashing and needed resetting I have no idea.

 

As mentioned in a post above, remember that, currently, trimming also sets a new heading for the AP to try and steer to. Trim should (according to the manual) just hold the aircrafts attitude via the current control positions. I belive this behaviour is being corrected in the patch.

[EinsteinEP]

When Pitch, bank and heading are on and flight director is off, and when I want to turn, do I have to:

a) Turn to desired position and than press trim button

or

b) Press and hold trim button, than turn to desired position and than release trim button.

Although both methods can work, method b) is the better method (arguments to follow my post, I'm sure ;) ).

 

In the current implementation of AP (I think I read this may change with the upcoming patch), with method a) and Heading Hold activated, the AP will "fight" you as you make the turn, requiring you you hold excess rudder to make the turn. When you finally reach your desired heading and trim, you've simultaneously trimmed in that excess rudder and caused the AP feedback to go from its full 20% to 0. You're likely going to need to trim again.

 

With method b), once you press and hold the trim button, all AP feedback (not dampening) goes away, so there's no counter-input when you make the turn. Plus, once you have achieved your desired heading and release the trim button, you're holding only the required rudder inputs and when the AP feedback kicks in, it's trying to maintain your current heading, so there's no large control "spike".

 

Easy-peasy.

[Jack McCoy]

Velocity Vector / Turn on Target

 

Velocity Vector...

 

... Another clue is that I sometimes notice a small diagonal line at the top of the HUD when this is happening.

 

I think the small diagonal line you're seing is the Velocity Vector. From the DCS Black Shark Flight Manual (pdf):

"Velocity Vector. When airspeed is below 50 kph, a velocity vector line is drawn from the center of the Aircraft Datum. This line points in the direction that the aircraft is traveling and the length of the line represents the aircraft‟s relative speed. The line will be longest when the aircraft is traveling at 50 kph in any direction and shortest when the aircraft is at or near a hover. The Velocity Vector line is a useful tool when used in conjunction with the Hover Point Deviation Marker to hold a battle position. "

 

---

 

About your YAW problems...

 

Incidently, I was experimenting with the Shkval's ability to slave to Target Points (OT) displayed on the PVI-800 Navigation Control Panel. I had Auto Turn on Target, and my helo's current coordinates* dialed in as a Target Point on the PVI.

 

At one point, I hit the Designate Target/Uncage Shkval button, and the Shkval tried to center itself on these coordinates (where I was) and initiated (because of the Auto Turn) a continuus yaw. Maybe you're experiencing something similar?

 

Auto Hover was On. By the way (a bit off topic), I see nothing wrong in using this function, but is has to be understood that you need to be trimmed in hover before activating it.

--

*current coordinates: because I had used the "Fly-Over" Fix method instead of the laser-designation method.

[fatchance]

Thanks to all. I need to digest and experiment before getting back with results but I wanted to thank you all for your input.

 

What an amazing sim! I've not been so sucked in since the IL2 demo came out 8-9 years ago!! WOW

Edited May 7, 2009 by fatchance