Dynamic balance of Ka50 control inputs

[mbolan]

I have 2 issues that I cannot resolve that appear to be important:

 

1) How does one balance the throttle settings (PAGE UP/DOWN)? Do I just use as many PAGE UPs as I can without creating an alarm or is there some other useful rule? This is also part of Q2 balance issue.

 

2) Flying the Ka appears to be a balancing act - blade angle (collective), throttle and cyclic versus weather and track requirements to maintain some particular course/altitude for some motive.

 

To achieve the best angle I'm spending a lot of time trying different cyclic positions to balance off against wind, altitude etc which means that I'm not using the trim unless I really need to get my hands off the stick for whatever reason.

 

I can't help but wonder how many times the pilot hit TRIM while flying the 'Showflight.trk' demo file for example.

 

It's clearly essential in combat, but should I be using it when I'm learning just to fly

 

While this seems to lead me to getting in tune with the Ka and its external environment, it flies in the face of the 'trim trim trim' exhortations by other posters.

 

Currently I'm hitting Auto Trim only when I need to. The rest of the time I'm flying I'm trying to find a Ka attitude where it flies with the fewest control inputs by adjusting cyclic, collective and throttle.

 

It's similar for auto-hover. There appear to be physical positions (wind, enemy, altitude etc) that allow me to almost let go of the stick and hover without any computer assist. If I keep just hitting ALT T, I don't have to think about any of this but it seems to me that I, as the pilot, would be well served to understand all of these dynamics before I just hit Auto.

 

So I've been rejecting the 'trim, trim, trim' method which appears to be standing me in good stead in terms of learning the various balances although throttle is still a bit of a puzzle (see Q1)

 

Longer term, which approach is better - leave it to the helo (Auto Trim etc) or leave it to the pilot (learn the balance)?

 

I cannot help but wonder how many times the pilot in 'Showflight.trk' in the demo folder used the Trim command.

Edited May 17, 2009 by mbolan
Clarification

[LastRifleRound]

Do it as you have said. Trim trim trim got me in trouble, as I lacked the proper understanding of how the helo works.

 

Once you understand the fact that the control inputs you trim in may not necessarily match the attitude the autopilot is simulataneously trying to hold, you realize that understanding when these two factors match is more critical than ever. Failure to do this leads to an unstable helo incapable of precise flight maneuvers such as engaging with unguided weaponry and evasive manuevers at low altitudes and rough terrain

[JG14_Smil]

set throttles to auto and forget it.

 

anytime you change the helo's attitude and move the stick; push and hold trim button, set controls (use indicator), wait for gyros to settle, let go of trim button, center stick and rudder. Push and hoooooold.

 

I made this switch to my flying and find it to be the secret of the Blackshark, just as some others have noted. That and losing most of the axis curve and lowering SaturationY to 65 on pitch and yaw.

[LastRifleRound]

I made this switch to my flying and find it to be the secret of the Blackshark, just as some others have noted. That and losing most of the axis curve and lowering SaturationY to 65 on pitch and yaw.

 

Ooooo now you got me interested! What do you mean by losing the curve? Do you mean as close to linear as possible?

[nemises]

I have 2 issues that I cannot resolve that appear to be important:

 

1) How does one balance the throttle settings (PAGE UP/DOWN)? Do I just use as many PAGE UPs as I can without creating an alarm or is there some other useful rule? This is also part of Q2 balance issue.

 

you must set the Throttle to "Auto" after the engines have spooled (Page Up twice), and NEVER touch it again during the flight :)

 

There is no call , except in extreme emergencies, to manually move the throttle from Auto, and you are too newb to be dealing with extreme emergencies ;)

 

to re-iterate The Throttle is not touched at all during flight, only during startup and shutdown.

 

2) Flying the Ka appears to be a balancing act - blade angle (collective), throttle and cyclic versus weather and track requirements to maintain some particular course/altitude for some motive.

 

To achieve the best angle I'm spending a lot of time trying different cyclic positions to balance off against wind, altitude etc which means that I'm not using the trim unless I really need to get my hands off the stick for whatever reason.

 

I can't help but wonder how many times the pilot hit TRIM while flying the 'Showflight.trk' demo file for example.

 

It's clearly essential in combat, but should I be using it when I'm learning just to fly

 

While this seems to lead me to getting in tune with the Ka and its external environment, it flies in the face of the 'trim trim trim' exhortations by other posters.

 

Currently I'm hitting Auto Trim only when I need to. The rest of the time I'm flying I'm trying to find a Ka attitude where it flies with the fewest control inputs by adjusting cyclic, collective and throttle.

 

It's similar for auto-hover. There appear to be physical positions (wind, enemy, altitude etc) that allow me to almost let go of the stick and hover without any computer assist. If I keep just hitting ALT T, I don't have to think about any of this but it seems to me that I, as the pilot, would be well served to understand all of these dynamics before I just hit Auto.

 

So I've been rejecting the 'trim, trim, trim' method which appears to be standing me in good stead in terms of learning the various balances although throttle is still a bit of a puzzle (see Q1)

 

Longer term, which approach is better - leave it to the helo (Auto Trim etc) or leave it to the pilot (learn the balance)?

 

I cannot help but wonder how many times the pilot in 'Showflight.trk' in the demo folder used the Trim command.

 

Auto Hover mode (Alt-T) is not a magical "fix it all"... if you are out of trim, then it will not hover correctly even when engaged. It is meant to keep you hovering above a spot when you are allready perfectly in manual trim for a hover. The AP only has 20% + / - of the control authority the pilot has, so you kjust manually come to a hover (or very close to) and trim for it, then engange Auto hover if you want.

 

there is no "auto trim" key, just a plain standard trim key "T"

 

Try the "Push and hold" trim method to see if that works for you..ie. only release the trim button when you are going to go hands off the stick.Be sure to have your rudders centralised before you release the trim button.

[Panzertard]

It's clearly essential in combat, but should I be using it when I'm learning just to

Yes, there it is. It's what the others said - you've over complicated the Autopilot vs non AP.

 

The AP is a "inertia damper" for the KA-50 - and it's how it's meant to be flown. Use it, you'll learn to love it.

 

Hold trim when you turn, when you change altitude, whenever you change the attitude of the bird.

The damper works while you are holding the key, making your changes more smoothly.

Release it when you have established a new attitude that you are satisfied with.

It's that simple.

 

And yes, it's wise to know how to fly without too, in case you loose it. :joystick:

Edited May 17, 2009 by Panzertard

[Panzertard]

Example of evasive manouver:

1. LWR lights up, incoming.

2. I hold trim, Kick full Left rudder, stick over, nose down.

3. Gently pull up while close to ground, establish a level flight. It's possible due to the damper effect, full control.

4. Release Trim

5. The bird flies itself straight away, 250 km/h.

...

6. And I die horribly because I forgot to drop flares ...

Edited May 18, 2009 by Panzertard

[EtherealN]

Small note - in most cases flares will not help you against a target that set off your LWR, since a lased weapon won't have to rely on heat. There are however some cases where lasers are used to get ranging information before firing heat-seekers (Linebacker is an example, I believe), in which case the flares might save you.

 

But generally speaking, the flares are best used in a preventative fasion - if you intermittently launch flares while over a threat area you will upset the seekers of MANPADS and IR-based weapon systems as they are attempting to achieve the first lock.

[mbolan]

Control balancing

 

Thanks all. Very useful and interesting grist to the Ka control mill. Useful detail again PT.