Getting ENemy AI AH-64 to Attack.

[AKA_Clutter]

All, :helpsmilie:

I am in the process of building a mission and am trying to get AH-64’s to attack my group of Ka-50. I have set a Target point, set the target to “Helicopters in this area, and have the Target area set to 1500m. The AH-64’s have Hellfires, rockets, and I assume guns. I cannot get the AH-64s to attack the Ka-%)’s.

Any clue as to what I might be doing incorrectly?

Thanks,

AKA_Clutter

[spyda]

do they get with in visual range? as they have no radar

[EtherealN]

1500m is pretty small - are you absolutely certain that you are inside that area? If they are to do air interdiction I'd suggest a larger area.

 

Another thing is that it depends on where they are and where you are when they have their target point activated. If it's a regular turning point as opposed to a fly-over point they might be turning away for the next waypoint before they have the smallest chance of spotting you.

[AKA_Clutter]

EtherealN and spyda,

 

Thanks for the response. Your response have given me things to go and check.

 

The way I have it set up, they should be in visual range and I've placed the center of the "target zone) right where the Ka-50's should be. One thing might be that the Apache's are higher ( ~ 100 m higher) than the Ka-50's so they might no actually have visual.

 

As to the target point and type of way point, I should be OK with that as well. I have the Target point set from way-point 2, and it is directly in front of the choppers as they fly from way-point 2 to way point3.

 

This does raise a question. I assume that Target points are triggered at the way point they are associated with and continue until the next way point is reached. Is that correct?

 

Thanks,

AKA_Clutter

[nomdeplume]

This does raise a question. I assume that Target points are triggered at the way point they are associated with and continue until the next way point is reached. Is that correct?

 

This seems to be the case. I was under the impression that they scanned target points on the way to the associated waypoint, but I just did another test mission and it seems pretty clear that they didn't engage anyone until they reached the waypoint.

 

What I normally do is put target points at any waypoint that's anywhere near hostiles with a fairly large engagement zone and it works out reasonably well.

 

Playing around with a test mission and I have to say, I'm really unimpressed by the AI. Maybe I've done something completely wrong though - I really hope so. In the attached mission, 3 Ka-50s are taking off while two AH-64As attack the FARP. The Ka-50s have a few waypoints with targeting set to engage helicopters. The Apaches are attacking helicopters and ground targets. Edit: yes I did do quite a bit wrong; the Ka-50s task was set to Nothing (meaning they don't engage anyone), and the Apaches are prioritising SAMs as they're supposed to.

 

The Apaches do a good job of attacking the ground vehicles. Neither side seems to even notice the other choppers for a long time - far longer than seems reasonable. The AH-64s may be prioritising the ground targets (AA) but the Sharks have no other targets yet seem to be completely oblivious to the presence of the enemy helicopters, even when they fly right past them.

 

The Apaches seem to eventually notice the Hokums and start attacking, and then our Sharks finally take some action - however they start from a very defensive position and never seem to be able to start firing themselves. I've had a few variations with differently placed waypoints, and the Ka-50s would continue on their merry way even while members of the flight are being destroyed by the Apaches.

 

When I set the Ka-50s to take off from parking (so they were on the ground for longer) they seemed to be targeted by the Apaches much earlier. So I think the AI has a hard time "seeing" airborne helos. This is probably intentional but it seems way overdone - even worse than the "infantry are invisible until they fire" thing.

 

Still, I remain hopeful that I've done something stupid and a simple change to the targeting or waypoints or something will result in more reasonable behaviour. Anyone able to get a better result?

AH-64 attack.miz

Edited May 28, 2009 by nomdeplume
Add comments regarding my mistakes, thanks EvilBovil

[AKA_Clutter]

nomdeplume,

 

Thanks for the input. I'll download your mission and try it. Last night I did some test with a simple setup. The setup was 1 AI AH-64 (tried with Cobra as well) and 1 Ka-50 (player controlled, 7 km apart in a head-on meet. both were at the same altitude, and at a speed of 125 kph. Nothing happened! The AI ignored me! It did take evasive action once I fired on it. I tired flying higher than it, in FRONT of it, still no luck. :huh: Sigh.

 

AKA_Clutter

[Dusty Rhodes]

Did you set a target point? The target point should be the same size as your max effective range of your weapons for the AC you are setting the target point for. You must also, after setting the target point, specify what you want the AC to target.....Helo........ground vehicles.......buildings, etc. You also must make sure that the target of the Helo is in it's field of vision.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Dusty Rhodes

[AKA_Clutter]

Dusty,

 

Yes I Set target points. As to the size, I set them to 5000 m just to endure they would see me. In the head-on pass I flew at the same altitude and then again at a slightly higher altitude. I had the target point set to helo's.

 

:-(

 

AKA_Clutter

[Dusty Rhodes]

Clutter, can you attack the mission here and I'll take a look at it?

[AKA_Clutter]

Dusty,

 

Here is the test file I used. My assumption is that if I can get it working in this simple mission, then I can port it over to the more complex application.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

AKA_Clutter

Helo_Attack_test.miz

[McVittees]

I'm suprised at these problems. I'm flying the second phase of Wag's campaign (flown ~16 missions and had 8 deaths on this my second run at it), and the biggest butt f**k is the bloody Apache! They seem to have the unnering ability to hunt me down and shoot me out the sky. They certainly don't have any problems spotting and engaging me!

 

Maybe you should open up one of the missions in the campaign and see how Wags has set the Apaches to target?

[Ramstein]

I'm suprised at these problems. I'm flying the second phase of Wag's campaign (flown ~16 missions and had 8 deaths on this my second run at it), and the biggest butt f**k is the bloody Apache! They seem to have the unnering ability to hunt me down and shoot me out the sky. They certainly don't have any problems spotting and engaging me!

 

Maybe you should open up one of the missions in the campaign and see how Wags has set the Apaches to target?

 

I opened almost all of them up, and only found some chinooks... I wil look some more, but out of all those missions in the campaign... I only found one mission with the choppers... even when unhiding the objects that are hidden, I could not find any more choppers on the enemy side..

 

I and am sure Clutter will look too for these choppers and their setup..

 

Thanx..

:joystick:

[AKA_Clutter]

Ramstein is correct in that I will be looking. But it you can give me a mission name, it sure would make the hunt easier. When you say Waggs campaign, I assume you mean the one that came with the game, is that correct?

 

Thanks

[AKA_Clutter]

Eureka!!!! Problem solved!

 

Based on McVittees's response, I went and found a campaign mission with a AH-64 in it. I noticed that the AH-64 had a mission of CAS. Based on that I went back, tweaked my test mission (attached below) to give the AH-64 a mission of CAS, and fired her up. The AH-64 kicked my butt!! BIG TIME!

 

Thanks to all who responded.

Helo_Attack_test.miz

[EvilBivol-1]

Here is the test file I used. My assumption is that if I can get it working in this simple mission, then I can port it over to the more complex application.

There are at least three reasons why you are not being engaged:

1) You set a UH-60 Blackhawk as the Blue chopper. I'm not sure if this is a mistake or just another variation you tried, but the guns on transport helicopters are not currently implemented, so it has nothing to engage you with.

2) You set the Task to "Nothing." With a "Nothing" task, the AI will avoid all engagements.

3) You did not specify the target type in many of your Target Points. Anyway, there is no need for so many waypoints and target points.

 

I'm attaching a modification to your test in which an AH-64A will not only successfully engage you, but will then proceed to engage some ground vehicles. Everything is done with just one targeting point.

 

P.S. I see you have already figured it out. Oh well, good tips anyway for others maybe.

Helo_Attack_test_EB.miz

Edited May 28, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

[EvilBivol-1]

Playing around with a test mission and I have to say, I'm really unimpressed by the AI. Maybe I've done something completely wrong though - I really hope so. In the attached mission, 3 Ka-50s are taking off while two AH-64As attack the FARP. The Ka-50s have a few waypoints with targeting set to engage helicopters. The Apaches are attacking helicopters and ground targets.

 

The Apaches do a good job of attacking the ground vehicles. Neither side seems to even notice the other choppers for a long time - far longer than seems reasonable. The AH-64s may be prioritising the ground targets (AA) but the Sharks have no other targets yet seem to be completely oblivious to the presence of the enemy helicopters, even when they fly right past them.

 

The Apaches seem to eventually notice the Hokums and start attacking, and then our Sharks finally take some action - however they start from a very defensive position and never seem to be able to start firing themselves. I've had a few variations with differently placed waypoints, and the Ka-50s would continue on their merry way even while members of the flight are being destroyed by the Apaches.

The Apaches are prioritizing the SAM threat over the helicopters. If you want to change that, you can uncheck "Ground Vehicles" as targets for that waypoint and only leave "Helicopters" checked. You can then create another waypoint with a new target point for them to attack the ground units. Alternatively, you can create separate flights of Apaches for the separate tasks.

 

The Ka-50s are not engaging because you set their task to "Nothing".

 

Cool set-up though.

Edited May 28, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

[nomdeplume]

The Apaches are prioritizing the SAM threat over the helicopters. If you want to change that, you can uncheck "Ground Vehicles" as targets for that waypoint and only leave "Helicopters" checked. You can then create another waypoint with a new target point for them to attack the ground units. Alternatively, you can create separate flights of Apaches for the separate tasks.

 

Ah, I see! That explains a lot. My initial version had the Apaches a bit closer and the Ka-50s set to take off from parking, so the Apaches had quite a bit of time to destroy the SAMs. They would then engage the Hokums. I was trying to speed things up a bit and then finding they were completely ignoring them.

 

The Ka-50s are not engaging because you set their task to "Nothing".

 

D'oh! :doh: I knew about that and completely forgot. No wonder...

 

Thanks for the tips, I redact my earlier vitriol!

[McVittees]

Eureka!!!! Problem solved!

 

Based on McVittees's response, I went and found a campaign mission with a AH-64 in it. I noticed that the AH-64 had a mission of CAS. Based on that I went back, tweaked my test mission (attached below) to give the AH-64 a mission of CAS, and fired her up. The AH-64 kicked my butt!! BIG TIME!

 

Thanks to all who responded.

 

Glad to hear that - now feel the wrath of the Helfire!!! (and btw it ain't no use running!:smartass:)

[Ramstein]

Thanx all for all the help, it looks like we can get these choppers to obey our commands much better now.. though there is lots more to learn, that's for sure..

:thumbup: