only mt now ST map is blank.

[SkateZilla]

There's default shortcuts directly to the DCS.exe, it's not required to launch DCS from the Updater. Bypassing it does nothing to the DCS.exe process or memory address.

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

There's default shortcuts directly to the DCS.exe, it's not required to launch DCS from the Updater. Bypassing it does nothing to the DCS.exe process or memory address.

Yes, yes I understand all that...what I'm trying to get at is that what bypassing Updater *can* also do is cause problems.  Ill advised for those lacking certain experience, we'll say.

In fact, one could argue that - if you're right about the Updater being pointed at ST - then that (almost certainly) means it was messed up by jacking around with it, since we know it doesn't do that by default  

It would mean my friend has somehow altered what Updater does, then when it did what it was told, the map problem shows up.  He decides (wrongly) that the fix is to run the MT dcs.exe directly (even though that is based on advice in this very forum).

The real cause, if you're right, and the real solution, is "don't mess with Updater if you don't know what you're doing". Updater runs MT as intended, no map problem, everybody's happy.

Otherwise, people walk away with the idea that Updater doesn’t work right, and the fix is to just always run the MT version directly - which again, could cause problems at some point, since none of us control what ED codes into a compiled executable.

Also, can't rule out that at some point trying to run the exe's directly might not even be an option, since again, we don't control that.

Edited September 13, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Blade_meister]

I am the person kksnowbear is talking about.

 

"run DCS directly, get into mission goto map, exit, attach dcs.log

run Updater click later, get into mission goto map, exit, attach dcs.log. "

 

I did the above and the map works in both instances. Here is the entry in the Autoupdate.cfg

"launch": "bin-mt/DCS.exe"

I ran the SP.exe and the map was not working just like the problem I had yesterday.

I had been using the MT.exe shortcut, which I manually created and copied to my desktop a longtime ago,6months or more?.  The only thing I can think is that after updating yesterday for the first time in 6 months from a Beta version that maybe it was messed up in the update process . I did run a repair yesterday after all of this happened and then went in the MT bin folder and made a desktop shortcut to the MT DCS.exe. Everything works fine now. It's still kksnowbears fault no matter what, but back to sleep everyone, sorry for the trouble.

 

S!Blade<><

Edit: You assume wrongly kksnowbear. I have not changed any internal files within the DCS folder in years. I am and will continue to run DCS from the MT.exe shortcut as i have never had a problem with doing that.

"It would mean my friend has somehow altered what Updater does, then when it did what it was told, the map problem shows up.  He decides (wrongly) that the fix is to run the MT dcs.exe directly (even though that is based on advice in this very forum). "

 

Edited September 13, 2024 by Blade_meister

[kksnowbear]

On 9/13/2024 at 12:29 PM, SkateZilla said:

can bet his autoupdate.cfg points to the the ST dcs.exe

You assume wrongly kksnowbear. I have not changed any internal files within the DCS folder in years. I am and will continue to run DCS from the MT.exe shortcut as i have never had a problem with doing that.

Nope. Not at all what I'm saying.  Sorry if that isn't clear.

I didn't assume anything about what you did, that would be Skatezilla, whose quote is above.  I didn't say (or assume) you changed anything, he did.

I'm saying that ***IF*** what Skatezilla said were true, then it would mean that you had altered that file (but we both know you didnt).

And I said you did exactly what you did: Read here on the forum to run MT, which you then told me was working.  That takes me to what I am saying, and will keep saying:  Factually, it is not the best approach, for all the reasons I've explained already, and more important still, it's absolutely not necessary (since October '23) if your Updater is working as intended by default.  And that is directly per ED themselves.

Fact is, if your installation hadn't been messed up, it would've worked just fine, precisely as I said it would, and just as ED says it should.  You've also now confirmed that it does work exactly this way: 

"run Updater click later, get into mission goto map, exit, attach dcs.log. "

I did the above and the map works in both instances. Here is the entry in the Autoupdate.cfg

"launch": "bin-mt/DCS.exe"

Updater works as intended, map displays fine. Just as I said; no need at all to run dcs.exe from the bin-MT folder directly.

You and everyone else can do whatever you want.  What I said about running from the MT dcs.exe is still entirely accurate.  That 'fix' applies to people who were running the ST version (as mentioned above) - but obviously that's not what was going on in your case.  As I immediately indicated when you first told me about this:  It appears the update process screwed up somehow.

And it's certainly not my fault your installation got jacked up somehow - I didn't write the software.

Edited September 15, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Blade_meister]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:03 PM, kksnowbear said:

He's already pissed at me for telling him to stop running MT directly, because when he did it broke the map (not that it's my fault).

You know I just now read this comment you posted before where I started reading this thread initially and no wonder your getting all pissy and going on and on about this. From the first time I said," it's your fault my map isn't working" I verbally conveyed to you on the phone that I was just kidding with you, even putting a smiley face after the joking comment I made here. Calm down, you have made your point at least twice if not three times in this thread. You are correct in some of what you say, but my DCS got screwed through some glitch of updating and after a repair is now working correctly. I never manually altered any file or files dealing with DCS or any shortcuts I created. I state this just for clarity sake, no attitude is attached to this statement.

I do hope that you did absorb what skatezilla said here.

"It's not hardcoded, it's the 2nd to the last line in the autoupdate.cfg"

And also

"But Like I said, I launch DCS.exe directly in either mode. I only use DCS_Updater to update. There is no repercussions to launching dcs.exe directly." And he said he has done this for the last 5 years.

There is no advantage or disadvantage to using the Updater.exe exclusively, accept if there is a pending update and you do want to process that update. Even then you can run the updater or repair from the new initialization screen in the files tab. All the changes made to DCS.exe would have to be compiled to the .exe not the updater.exe if, through my very limited programming experience, I understand the patching/updating and compiling process correctly. My apologies if you took my ribbing you about being responsible for my map not working as reality, that was me giving you a hard time and joking with you. Hope you can accept that as I am moving on from this subject.

S!Blade<><

[kksnowbear]

The part about Updater being hardcoded was my own misunderstanding, caused by my own lack of research, for which I took responsibility and made corrections.  I'm not perfect...you?

But that's a small detail that changes absolutely nothing about the rest of what I'm saying.

I'm not getting pissy, I'm simply stating my position.  Please keep personal attacks out of it, and debate the topic, not the person.

You may have been "joking" (as you say) but you weren't happy and you made that abundantly clear.  Sorry if we disagree.  It didn't come off as a joke to me, just saying.

Either way, what you ultimately did is what I'm "on about" - and by the way, I'm "going on" about it because people like you keep arguing.  You expect to be able to post a comment, and I'm not allowed to respond?  It's a discussion forum.

I'm simply presenting a different way to see things, and I'm providing details and facts to back my perspective.

Sorry if that bothers you, but that's kinda what discussion forums are about.

Back to the actual topic (i.e. The blank map in ST).  Just for the sake of discussion let's look at it your way:

If "There is no repercussions[sic] to launching dcs.exe directly." then why did the people in this thread have the map problem?  

Fact is, if it weren't possible for them to do it wrong, they wouldn't have had the problem, and this thread wouldn't exist.

Moreover, if I'm not mistaken, there are no fewer than *three* separate threads about this same issue now, in this subforum alone.  All with the same purported fix: "Run MT"...even though ED set up the game to run MT, by default, almost a year ago(!)  (Three: This one, >two< and >three< )  Doesn't matter how you look at it, there's just more effort required.  More questions that need to be answered; more confusion.

This problem (ST map blank) exists for one simple reason:  Users were allowed to choose, and that choice caused the map problem (in most cases, though not all).

It is not a question of which choice they make; either ST or MT version can have/cause problems.  That's not the problem; the problem is that users were allowed a choice. Take away that choice, the problem cannot exist.  Simple.  Updater already calls the appropriate version (and has for almost a year), and ED has said it's stable and they are happy with it.

So why does anyone need to be able to run anything manually?  It only serves to create the potential for confusion and problems.  Your own misunderstanding (that you still *must* do it manually) proves that point, and so does this thread.

At an absolute minimum, if there was only one way to run the game, then no one would ever have to worry about what happens when someone runs it a different way.  Support is easier, period.  (Again, there are *three* separate threads right now, for the same issue.)

Speaking of easier support: As I believe you know, I actually have spent decades in various professional capacities, working directly with software and developers, and (in my experiences) they aren't typically very fond of leaving choices to users.  This situation very clearly illustrates why.

Oddly enough, in my experience, it's always the users who want the choices.  The developers I worked with wanted to hard code stuff so the users couldn't cause problems by choosing wrong.

Sound familiar?

My point is to help avoid the misunderstandings.  No rules against it that I'm aware of.  You yourself could've benefited if you understood better.

Incidentally, this also conclusively demonstrates that factually, the game absolutely can have the map problem even if the user wasn't running the ST version *and* never edited any cfg file.  Your own experience also proves that.

So there's another misunderstanding.  That's what led to Skatezilla saying "can bet his autoupdate.cfg points to the the ST dcs.exe " - which we now know simply isn't accurate (also not my fault BTW).

The user being left the choice *is* the problem, and this thread *is* the repercussion of the user having that choice; it is exactly what caused this entire thread and the problems discussed herein.

Now, I'm truly sorry if you cannot see that, but (as a matter of opinion in the form of professional advice) the reader would do well to recognize this.

(PS, No, it's not accurate to say all the changes to the game have to be made to dcs.exe in the bin-MT folder, at all.  That's exactly my point, which most regretfully seems is still being confused.  They can be made anywhere ED programs them, and neither you, I, nor Skatezilla control that; we don't have source code.  And, just as a point of clarification, compiling source code does not take place on the target installation).

Edited January 14 by kksnowbear