Tobii Eye Tracker?

[Hiob]

Well, f..k me! 

That actually works great. No lag to speak of and Opentrack is much more user friendly than TrackIR. I still need to test in different lighting conditions, but in semi dark environment it works flawlessly. 

 

[ZON]

2024/9/29 PM3点42分，imacken说：

Thanks for that. 
I noticed that device some time ago. Couldn’t see any advantage over Tobii apart from price. 
Anyway, requiring an internet connection to make it work, and coming from China makes it a non-starter for me. Interesting though. 

@imacken  I have used Trackir 5 for many years and Tobii 5 for more than a year. I won’t describe the differences in detail. Please watch the video below:

AimxyZ's simplest evaluation is: It's like Trackir 5 without wearing anything. As the video below shows, I also wear glasses, and Tobii 5 is more or less affected by them, but AimxyZ solves this problem by simply placing the device in a corner of the screen.

AimxyZ's online verification is just for anti-piracy, just like DCS. You can monitor the behavior of their software with network monitoring software. My test results show that it is only a few bytes, and after the successful startup, it no longer needs the network, which is the same as DCS. Of course, if you look at things with natural prejudice, you will not have an objective conclusion. The verification server of DCS is in Russia. If you are politically prejudiced, you should refuse to play DCS now, right?

[imacken]

12 hours ago, Hiob said:

Well, f..k me! 

That actually works great. No lag to speak of and Opentrack is much more user friendly than TrackIR. I still need to test in different lighting conditions, but in semi dark environment it works flawlessly. 

 

Yep, exactly that. It works well in dark environments, but not so much in backlit or in a room with lots of light sources.  Having said that, TrackIR was/is the same.

[imacken]

5 hours ago, ZON said:

@imacken  I have used Trackir 5 for many years and Tobii 5 for more than a year. I won’t describe the differences in detail. Please watch the video below:

I used TrackIR for many years as well. I wasn't talking about TIR, it was the Aimxy device.

5 hours ago, ZON said:

AimxyZ's online verification is just for anti-piracy, just like DCS. You can monitor the behavior of their software with network monitoring software. My test results show that it is only a few bytes, and after the successful startup, it no longer needs the network, which is the same as DCS. Of course, if you look at things with natural prejudice, you will not have an objective conclusion. The verification server of DCS is in Russia. If you are politically prejudiced, you should refuse to play DCS now, right?

Just a personal thing, but I won't buy a piece of hardware that requires an internet connection to work.

[pii]

On 9/5/2024 at 5:31 AM, imacken said:

No problem with Tobii on DCS, although it would be nice to see it integrated rather than having to use GameHub.

Unlike post above, I have no issues with lag, reset button or disable button.

I could never click a button in the cockpit because it jittered around too much when you leaned into it for a close-up view. It does track a little slower than Track IR, but not bad at all, IMO. I also had to constantly "fiddle" with it, which got on my nerves.

I had it for three weeks,then sent it packing, and returned to my TIR5 with a reflector clip on a baseball cap. I  might have kept it, if it wasn't twice the cost of a TIR5, to play with it a little more as the hardware itself seemed well-made.

I also think, and this is just my opinion, that "eye tracking " is just a gimmick to sell head trackers. I couldn't find a real use for it anywhere in any eye-tracking app or game. Not without a huge cost for much better eye-tracking hardware. Tobii doesn't have the ability. 

[imacken]

Yep, I don't ever use eye-tracking. Waste of time in flight sims, etc.

The extra cost of Tobii, IMO, is well worth it to not have a hunk of plastic stuck to your head or having to wear a baseball cap all the time!

[pii]

On 11/29/2024 at 4:07 PM, imacken said:

Yep, I don't ever use eye-tracking. Waste of time in flight sims, etc.

The extra cost of Tobii, IMO, is well worth it to not have a hunk of plastic stuck to your head or having to wear a baseball cap all the time!

I wear a cap all the time anyway, so it is no different than usual for me and, thus, not worth the extra cost. The cap weighs about 4 ounces, and you can't even tell it's on. Now, the pro clip is another story, and I always hated that.

Anyways, to each his own; happy flying!

 

 

[imacken]

Of course. However, Tobii has lots of other benefits, not least being able to auto login to Windows with Hello when you get near your PC.

[pii]

On 12/6/2024 at 4:44 AM, imacken said:

Of course. However, Tobii has lots of other benefits, not least being able to auto login to Windows with Hello when you get near your PC.

Well, I wouldn't say "Lots." Hello is nice, but it can be done with just about any five-dollar webcam. Like I said to each his own but in the end for me it was

Too expensive

Too fidgety

Eye tracking was no more than a gimmick to sell a head tracker for more $$, IMO.

It was nice hardware, and for a lower price, I might have kept it around.

Enjoy. 

 

 

[imacken]

Simply not true about $5 web cams for Hello.  A search on Amazon shows they start around £40-50.

[Caldera]

I just stumbled upon this thread myself.  I have had Tobii for a couple of years, but I could never make it work well for me.  I would always return to TrackIR. 

This last time I stuck with it.  After finding a YT video that was pretty recent that showed me where to start.  In the video the guy was mostly relying on eye tracking, which was something I could NEVER get to work well.  Anything I looked directly at became unstable, mostly in the pitch axis.  No way I could use a clickable cockpit.

I hope I don't get into trouble.  

So I followed his advice.  I found and DL'd the more recent (FEB 25) GH drivers.  And I set things up precisely as described in the YT video.  I was immediately impressed at how well it worked.

However, the screen panning speed was too slow for me (as compared to TrackIR).  But armed with new found knowledge I have tuned Tobii a bit more for my own taste.  Mostly, only with small changes to the head movements to speed them up.

And...

I have to say, the freedom from TrackIR is like a breath of fresh air.  TrackIR worked very well (I wore a hat), but the constant screen re-centering that it required began to drive me bonkers.  With Tobii and eye tracking turned on this essentially never occurs as the screen seems to always center on where I am looking.  The only issue I am yet to solve is vertical head movement which seems really limited, so I may need to adjust the curves within DCS itself.  Other than that, I must say that I am really liking it.

I think that I may yet try out OT as per the advice above  But there is no great need as GH seems to performing quite well, other vertical head movement.  

Does OT actively track eye movement?

Thanks in advance,

Caldera

[imacken]

OT does not use eye tracking, but, tbh, very few people use it in flight sims. Very unrealistic. 

[Caldera]

Well hmm...

Imacken, your comment surprises me.  As using our eyes and head movements is the most natural way we as humans look at just about anything.  That is about as real as anything using vision gets.  However, on a monitor these movements must be accelerated and exaggerated.  Which is not realistic.  With Tobii, the eye tracker forces the screen to lock in place at whatever I look at so in effect removes the illusion (in my mind) of the exaggerated movement on the screen.

Not wanting to start an argument, I am curious why you state that.

 

Have you tried using Tobii with eye tracking turned on? 

With the right settings, IMO it has become true a game changer.

Caldera

[imacken]

Of course, humans use eyes and head movements, but eye trackers don't work in the same way as a human, sadly.

Think of it this way. When we sit with our head steady, moving our eyes around to look at an object is done within the same range of vision.  On an eye tracker, that is not how it works. The whole range of vision moves, and that is what is wrong and unnatural about it. It's like a head movement without moving your head, and so, in use, you get lots of excessive movements of head combined with eye and that is not good.

If it works for you, then great, but not many people use eye tracking in flight sims.

[imacken]

Let me give you an example.

Let's say you are in a training mission, and you constantly having to reference the messages in the top right of the screen and then go back to the dials etc. to input values/selections, with eye tracking on, it is almost impossible to remain orientated with all the bouncing around that goes on with the vision range position.  Whereas, with eye tracking off, there are none of these issue as you can just look at the messages with your eyes while still remaining focussed on the dials/switches, like in real life.

Edited February 25 by imacken

[Caldera]

OK fair enough, too each their own. 

What you say regarding the example training mission is true to some extent for me, especially at first.  But, I have found out that as I have used eye tracking more (learning rather quickly) is that my brain seems to filter that out.  Not to say that I do not notice it.  

As soon as my eyes focus on another point on the screen, the screen just re-centers on that point.  This is irregardless of where my head is actually pointing at the moment and seems very natural once getting used to it.  This is as long as my head is not turned greatly like for example if I am glancing at one of my switch boxes or checking six.  I guess that I have learned, mostly from using TrackIR a great deal, to just sort of "unfocus" my eyes while the screen is motion because I can't really focus on any one thing anyways.  It is only when the screen is stopped that I can focus.  

This is true for real life as my focus is always exactly on where my eyes are currently pointed, and (same as in eye tracking) my head just seems to track to that same point of focus naturally to reduce the strain on my eye muscles.  Much like a sidewinder and its seeker head tracking to a target using its deviation computer.  From what I understand, eye tracking VR seems to work this same way to some degree.

The real problem I had at first was untraining my head movements that I had so diligently trained using TrackIR and to rely much more on my natural eye / head movements to control the screen.

I will say that the effect is different to say the least, especially at first after using just strictly head tracking for so long.  I do find that that at higher zoom levels the screen can still become unstable and pretty quickly in the cockpit.  This can create a pilot induced (eye) oscillation of sorts.  The problem is focusing on the mouse pointer and the switch that I am trying to actuate with distance between the two and the alignment process that goes on in my head.  It takes more effort and practice as the screen scroll rate increases (allot) with zoom.  Less of a problem with head tracking alone, however still requires more concentration to do it.  

Additionally for example, more concentration was needed to learn, with TrackIR, how to hold the crosshairs over a moving target using the HMCS or shooting the chain gun accurately in the Apache.  Those actions seemed for me to put eye movements and head movements at odds with each other.

 

The proper settings are everything.

 

I can't use VR effectively so I appreciate your conversation and comments,

Caldera

 

[imacken]

From your point of view, I get what you are meaning, and it works well for you. That is great! 

However, my point is that eye tracking is not at all 'natural' as you mention often. It works basically the same as head tracking except that you are using your eyes and not your head.  When humans look at something within their range of vision with their eyes, their range of vision doesn't change.  You can be looking straight at a dial and look at a message in the top left of your vision without leaving the orientation of the dial.

In essence, you seem to like using your eyes more than your head for changing your physical vision position, and that's fine, but natural, it isn't!  VR is way better from this pov, and I used it for a number of years, BUT, in the end I got fed up with a hunk of plastic being stuck to my head, and for the same reason, I much prefer my Tobii to my TrackIR.

[Caldera]

Are you able to post your OpenTrack settings?

Seems that GT supports OT directly...

I wouldn't mind trying it, but I don't want to experiment for hours to get it right.

Caldera

[imacken]

I presume GT is a typo for GH. IMO, there is no point in using GH with OT. Use either standalone OT or GH. Using OT inside GH means running 2 pieces of software for no real benefit IMO.

At the moment, I am switching between the recently released version of GH and OT. The GH is pretty good, I feel. Eye tracking off and camera boost on.

Happy to post my settings, but what works for me probably won’t be right for you.