Russian Pantsir-S1 -- best air defence money can buy

[Vault]

A time ago GGTharos was talking that larger missile has more drag ;) Or does this apply to russian missiles only when it hurts...?

The whole point of having 2 stages is having more speed and range at once. Argue to Tsiolkovsky on that.

 

You're correct, A larger diameter missile has more displacement and higher drag, 2 stage rockets have superiour sustained speed and range. You're trying to reason with someone who thinks the 9-X is the be all and end all to all SRM. Don't waste your time. :)

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

_ 1000 Harm`s and 100 Alarm , was Firing at Serbia Air Defences In 78 days of Kosovo Air WAR. AFM Magazine 1999.

That was exactly my point. What do you say Pilotasso?

[GGTharos]

I'll say something in his place, and that's 'The USAF/USN learned their lesson and redesigned the HARM to do better'.

 

Will it? We don't know.

 

However, I will also add this: The HARM DID do its job when it came to Air Defense suppression.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I'll say something in his place, and that's 'The USAF/USN learned their lesson and redesigned the HARM to do better'.

Jugoslavia learned its lesson and redesigned the decoys to do better'.

 

Will it? We don't know.

However, I will also add this: The HARM DID do its job when it came to Air Defense suppression.

Of course it did, by launching a dozen or dozens HARM's per SAM, overwhelm the system(s) with numbers (quantity). Wasn't that my point to begin with?

 

Reminder SAM = Stealth STOP!

[Pilotasso]

You're correct, A larger diameter missile has more displacement and higher drag, 2 stage rockets have superiour sustained speed and range. You're trying to reason with someone who thinks the 9-X is the be all and end all to all SRM. Don't waste your time. :)

 

I would like to see where did I say that about the 9X.

 

That was exactly my point. What do you say Pilotasso?

 

Your point is somewhat moot and double standadized. Mainly because the only reasons why all SAM's werent destroyed was because of previously mentioned terrain and weather factors plus ROE and objectives at hand. Even so, dodging HARM's had its price: SAM operators couldnt properly engage or defend the attackers either. So the objective was met.

In all other conflicts where SAM's became the sole pillar of air defense they were consistently turned into scrap metal through various means beyond the use of HARM's.

 

SAM's can hide but they cant run, shorter range ones even more. they are perfect targets in open terrain, if hidden their field of coverage is also affected.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Pilotasso

[Vault]

I would like to see where did I say that about the 9X.

 

That comment wasn't aimed at you. ;)

[Pilotasso]

But the quote you made was, even though the referred name wasnt mine. And that person also didnt say that. ;)

Edited June 8, 2009 by Pilotasso

[Vault]

I'll say something in his place, and that's 'The USAF/USN learned their lesson and redesigned the HARM to do better'.

 

Will it? We don't know.

 

However, I will also add this: The HARM DID do its job when it came to Air Defense suppression.

 

ARM's weren't very suppresive against the Serbian P-18 spoon radar that was observing those F-117's in Serbia was it? ARM's can't see any wavelengths that are 50% longer than the ARM's receiving antenna. Old Soviet style VHF search radars are able to employ multi metre wavelengths.

 

Hats off to the Serb's, Whoever thought about removing the and dare I mention it, the Faraday cage from those microwave ovens to create an effective x band decoy transmitter that fooled many NATO ARM's was brilliant.

 

Multi million dollar missiles fooled by microwave ovens... how embarrasing.

[Groove]

I would like to remember all of you that this thread is about the Pantsir S1 SHORAD system and not Yugoslavia and or microwave ovens.

 

Please stay on topic from now on.

[nscode]

Your point is somewhat moot and double standadized. Mainly because the only reasons why all SAM's werent destroyed was because of previously mentioned terrain and weather factors plus ROE and objectives at hand. Even so, dodging HARM's had its price: SAM operators couldnt properly engage or defend the attackers either. So the objective was met.

In all other conflicts where SAM's became the sole pillar of air defense they were consistently turned into scrap metal through various means beyond the use of HARM's.

 

SAM's can hide but they cant run, shorter range ones even more. they are perfect targets in open terrain, if hidden their field of coverage is also affected.

 

 

So, all that HARM opperators need to do is pick a country that is very flat and has perfect weather all the time, and those SAMs are as good as busted. ;)

 

Pantsir can hide, can run and can defend it self. None of those options are 100% safe, but it isn't helpless either. Tehcnology is being developed to further reduce its chances, but SAM designers aren't sitting still either. After all, it's not a very fresh system.

[Vault]

Any SHORAD/IADS system that has the type of mobility that the Pantsir has is a formidable foe and a hard target especially when DL'd to huge search/aquastion multi metric VHF radars that are impervious to ARM's, Is the high mobility of the Pantsir-S1 SHORAD system the reason why NATO named it the Greyhound?.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Vault

[bumfire]

Any SHORAD/IADS system that has the type of mobility that the Pantsir has is a formidable foe and a hard target especially when DL'd to huge search/aquastion multi metric VHF radars that are impervious to ARM's, Is the high mobility of the Pantsir-S1 SHORAD system the reason why NATO named it the Greyhound?.

 

 

Dont be bloody stupid, they named it after the greyhound bus service :baby:

[Vekkinho]

^^^^

LOL!

[GGTharos]

They named it with a word that starts with a 'G', like all the other SAMs. I'm not sure what they'd naming the S-300 'Grumble' has to do with its performance. I'm fairly certain other medium/long range units are equally grumpy or angry ;)

 

Any SHORAD/IADS system that has the type of mobility that the Pantsir has is a formidable foe and a hard target especially when DL'd to huge search/aquastion multi metric VHF radars that are impervious to ARM's, Is the high mobility of the Pantsir-S1 SHORAD system the reason why NATO named it the Greyhound?.

[DarkWanderer]

Is the high mobility of the Pantsir-S1 SHORAD system the reason why NATO named it the Greyhound?.

What is the MiG-21 (Fishbed) named for then?..

[nscode]

because that's where they feared their bed will be when they meet it - with the fishes ;)

[Vault]

They named it with a word that starts with a 'G', like all the other SAMs. I'm not sure what they'd naming the S-300 'Grumble' has to do with its performance. I'm fairly certain other medium/long range units are equally grumpy or angry ;)

 

What is the MiG-21 (Fishbed) named for then?..

 

I haven't got a clue that's why I asked, I understand the first letter of each designation denotes a certain weapon system, I just don't understand the logic behind NATO's labelling and designating terminology.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Vault

[GGTharos]

I believe that it is because you are trying to understand something that does not exist beyond what it stated above. (ie. I doubt there's any logic to picking the names aside the first letter)

[Vault]

I believe that it is because you are trying to understand something that does not exist beyond what it stated above. (ie. I doubt there's any logic to picking the names aside the first letter)

 

Thanks for the reply, I think you're right, I'm looking for something that isn't there.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, my understanding is that they basically designated the letter and then made a list of words starting on that letter. Whenever a new system appears they select a word on the list. (Sort of like how hurricanes and tropical storms are named.)

 

And to be honest, that system is awesome. I want to be a Fagot pilot... :D

(EDIT: And before anyone reprimands me on that point, yes, I am aware that the word "fagot" became slang for homosexual male a good while after the 15 got that NATO designation.)

Edited June 9, 2009 by EtherealN

[topol-m]

I couldn`t restrain myself - Fagot pilot LOL :fear:

[EtherealN]

Awh, topol-m, you don't like manly attention? :P

 

But yeah, those evolved slang words can be interesting sometimes. In my provincial capital there's a street named "Fagottgatan". Which, with the slang in ming, ends up being "the street of homosexual men." Whoops...

 

Similarly though, reading 19th century english literature can be equally fun, since the words "queer", "gay" and so on still had their original meanings back then. That's when the most dry of literature could straight-faced (heheh) give lines like "there is nothing queer about that man, he just has a gay disposition"... :D